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What's Wrong With Endgame?

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  • Coolwater
    commented on 's reply
    It's not that Duncan doesn't kill. He kills in self-protection and he kills when he thinks it is a moral or practical necessity. Even then, he always talks first ("We don't have to do this."). If the film were better written, Duncan would have explained Kate/Faith's situation to her and demonstrated his own immortality to her. He might have forced the first death on her (women had NO rights and even a mortal husband could usually get away with killing his wife), but he'd have explained it to her first.
    And once she had been killed and reborn, Duncan would have had a legal right and expectation that she couldn't just run off. he'd have gone after her.

  • LizzyB
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post

    But why? Just curious. So many "friends" of Duncan and so on have come by Duncan's own hand in the series itself.
    Katie's death just feels like selfishness on Duncan's part and arrogance and while he's almost certainly displayed these traits previously (I say almost because it's been a long time since I had a rewatch and my memory is hazy, especially on the latter seasons), this just feels like more than someone being a bit self-centred, he shows little or no understanding of how Kate might process the news of her potential immortality, he doesn't even seem to consider telling her, he just makes a decision that has far reaching consequences.
    Last edited by LizzyB; 08-09-2017, 12:34 PM.

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  • dubiousbystander
    replied
    The Kate thing seems just written for the sake of drama. Also, "Oh noes, if they don't suffer a violent death they won't become Immortal!" being long known by most folks was just too out of the blue.

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  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by LizzyB View Post

    Yeah, Duncan killing Kate is a problem for me too, it just seems so out of character. It's one of the two big faults I see with Endgame (the other is the death of Connor. I felt like that was done purely for shock value - "Ooh I know, let's kill off the main character of the series! No one will see it coming!" I once attempted to rewrite Endgame so Connor didn't die, but I didn't get very far. Might go back to it one day if I can get the file back). The other things are smaller issues - I'd have incapacitated Rachel, rather than killing her outright and Methos could have had a bigger part, stuff like that - but the two big ones for me are Connor and Kate's deaths at Duncan's hands.
    But why? Just curious. So many "friends" of Duncan and so on have come by Duncan's own hand in the series itself.

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  • LizzyB
    replied
    Originally posted by Aleander View Post
    Well, Culloden makes sense enough, as he's left Scotland, but visits Ireland because of how it reminds him of his home... I'd argue killing Kate is the breaking point for him, the point where he abandons even his Scots accent after this, and truly becomes a man of the world like his mentor.

    But yeah, Duncan killing Kate out of the blue is still very uncharacteristic of him. At any age.
    Yeah, Duncan killing Kate is a problem for me too, it just seems so out of character. It's one of the two big faults I see with Endgame (the other is the death of Connor. I felt like that was done purely for shock value - "Ooh I know, let's kill off the main character of the series! No one will see it coming!" I once attempted to rewrite Endgame so Connor didn't die, but I didn't get very far. Might go back to it one day if I can get the file back). The other things are smaller issues - I'd have incapacitated Rachel, rather than killing her outright and Methos could have had a bigger part, stuff like that - but the two big ones for me are Connor and Kate's deaths at Duncan's hands.

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  • Coolwater
    commented on 's reply
    Connor would have to tattoo "fun!" on his arm!

  • dubiousbystander
    replied
    Giggling. Andrew's Connor & Duncan show addresses that. Connor introduces himself, and the women fall all over him. Duncan introduces himself, and the women are iffy. Methos introduces himself and can't get a word out before the women adore him. Or am I remembering that that quite correctly? Probably not...

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  • Tootsie Bee
    replied
    Another continuity error introduced by this film: when the elder Highlander introduces himself to Duncan in the flashback by saying, "I'm Connor MacLeod of the clan MacLeod," we don't immediately cut to a passionate blue-lit love scene. That's a basic failure to stick to the franchise formula up to that point. The Power of Seduction is an essential part of Connor's character in the first three films.

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  • Aleander
    replied
    Not really. He was more shocked Duncan jumped with the precision he did.

    God, I hate that moment.

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  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Aleander View Post
    Yeah, Kane's the best in the entire franchise, although Katana's in 2 is a close second.

    But I was refering more to the finish move. Duncan just jumps over Kell, who's stunned for some reason? Come on!
    He was shocked by Duncan harnessing the Power Illusion to spook him with Connor.

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  • dubiousbystander
    commented on 's reply
    Hahahah I almost said that, but you beat me to it days ago.

  • Nicholas Ward
    replied
    Highlander and Endgame have the better final Quickenings though.

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  • Leto II
    replied
    ^ Absolutely love those beheadings in H3 -- very brutal and "juicy" (if that makes sense).

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  • Aleander
    replied
    Yeah, Kane's the best in the entire franchise, although Katana's in 2 is a close second.

    But I was refering more to the finish move. Duncan just jumps over Kell, who's stunned for some reason? Come on!

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  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Aleander View Post
    Speaking of which, Duncan's decap of Kell... man, that is AWFUL. The whole jump was just ineptly done.
    I'm not the hugest fan of the way the dummy body looks when it goes over the rails, but it's still better than Kurgan's not-quite-a-visible-beheading. Kane's was visually the best.

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  • Tootsie Bee
    commented on 's reply
    ...which is why he should have tried it on Bull from Night Court.

  • Aleander
    replied
    Speaking of which, Duncan's decap of Kell... man, that is AWFUL. The whole jump was just ineptly done.

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  • Coolwater
    replied
    Works with capes on bulls.

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  • Tootsie Bee
    replied
    No, the "dupe your opponent into charging at you like an idiot, then turn around and cut off his head as he passes by" technique.


    Properly executed, that move is surprisingly effective.

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  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post
    Connor should've taught him the move he used to kill Kurgan
    The "look for a woman to wait in the shadows and smack my adversary with a pipe at a key moment so I can take the advantage" move? That one?

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  • Tootsie Bee
    commented on 's reply
    Shh! I can rewrite Endgame however I want!

  • Aleander
    replied
    That finishing move in 1 and 3? Yeah, that'd have been real useful. After all, he won the Prize with that move.

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  • Aleander
    commented on 's reply
    You meant Kane, there?

  • Tootsie Bee
    replied
    Connor should've taught him the move he used to kill Kurgan and Kell instead, methinks.

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  • Aleander
    replied
    At least the original line was "almost unstoppable." Meaning that there COULD have been a reason not to use it all the time. But make it unstoppable so that when Kell blocks it, he's CLEVER! But... but.. was there ever gonna be a single reason for that move to exist other than to force Duncan's hand and actually kill Connor? Cause we ALL know, he really never would otherwise, under any circumstances.

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