Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why Highlander Endgame is Great

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • David McMurdo
    started a topic Why Highlander Endgame is Great

    Why Highlander Endgame is Great

    This forum is empty just now, and since Highlander Endgame is my favourite thing in the entire Highlander franchise, I thought I'd post the first topic here. Here are the reasons that I love Endgame so much.

    1: It brings Connor and Duncan Macleod together for the second and last time.

    2: After the misguided Highlander 2 and the weak remake that was Highlander 3, Endgame makes a serious attempt to establish an official canon and tie everything together.

    3: It's unapologetically Highlander. Though there are a few throwaway lines, it doesn't invest much time or effort in trying to make the film comprehensible to people who've never seen Highlander before. Some times this is a weakness, but at a certain point after a mythology is so well developed you just have to shrug and get on with continuing the story.

    4: It has a great Celtic spirituality/New Agey feel to it. Its mood is very melancholic. And I enjoy that.

    5: It has my favourite soundtrack of the franchise and it contributes massively to the aforementioned tone. I love The Song of the Pooka especially.

    6: It contains every classic Highlander element—sword fights, romance, tragedy, flashbacks, Watchers, etc. When you think about it, it's the most Highlander of Highlander stories.

    7: It has the best sword-fighting in the franchise, except a few episodes of the series, arguably, and that's probably because the same sword-master was involved. In the first three Highlander films the sword-fighting is very "Hollywood". Not that it's utterly genuine in Endgame, but it's certainly much better.

    8: It has the best sex scene in the franchise. I don't mean in terms of how explicit it is (though that too), but I mean in terms of the fact that it utilises the classic Highlander flashback element to portray something really unique. It's really the best way to go when thinking about any element of a film—if you have to have that obligatory scene (and you usually do), then try and think about how you could do it in a way that's unique to that particular film or franchise. They achieved that here, I feel.

    9: Kell is a great villain. Though there have obviously been plenty of immortals who don't want to die, none had Kell's point of view on The Game—that it was something to be prolonged forever. In many ways he's the anti-Connor. Whereas Connor is haunted by memories of his past and has grown tired of life, Kell just can't get enough of it and wants to ensure that it really does go on forever. The religious side of his character is a little unclear. There was a cut plot element where he is building temples all over the place. That would've been an interesting aspect of Kell to see fleshed out a bit more. Regardless, I like how he clearly takes God and life itself seriously, and how he actually has a serious agenda. Katana from Highlander 2 and Kane from Highlander 3 were really just weak Kurgan clones—they were just chaotic characters. But Kell was something different entirely and that makes him more distinct. Though the first three antagonists clearly want to kill Connor, they don't seem to be taking it personally. Kell on the other hand very clearly has a genuine hatred for both him and Duncan. Then there's his disciples. He's just a cool and interesting character to me. I'd have liked it if he were a little more developed.

    10: Suspicious JVC signs aside, I thought they gave Connor a great sendoff. A very emotional scene.


    So those are my main reasons for loving Endgame. Agree? Disagree? Have your own reasons?
    Last edited by David McMurdo; 05-14-2017, 11:40 PM.

  • Kladdagh
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post

    ... Call Ya ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Kladdagh View Post
    I'm sorry but I don't like Jacob Kell ... He is ridiculous in my point of view ... =O

    Leave a comment:


  • Kladdagh
    replied
    I'm sorry but I don't like Jacob Kell ... He is ridiculous in my point of view ... =O

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicholas Ward
    replied
    He was at the time the Quickening(s) manifested, not at the time of the beheadings.

    And the immortals were in a circle, not a line by my recollection. But I might be wrong on that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post
    He wasn't the closest immortal at the time of the killing, Kell was.
    But Kell was going down a line, cutting all the heads off, then stopping. There's no way Connor wasn't the closest one to at least the guy to his left or right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nicholas Ward
    replied
    He wasn't the closest immortal at the time of the killing, Kell was.
    But maybe he did pick up on the misery of the others who chose to be locked away, resulting in him seeking out Duncan for the final confrontation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Kind of surprising Connor wouldn't have gotten a slight pick-me-up from all the Quickenings going on right next to him in the Sanctuary. I suppose it doesn't work like that, though.

    Leave a comment:


  • RainbowRaven
    replied
    I was eager to watch Highlander: Endgame while I was watching the sixth season of Highlander because that season was not satisfying. I looked into why the season was short, didn't have enough Macleod or other regulars, and didn't seem to follow up on the devastation of Richie's death etc. I found that many of the actors had had other commitments including Adrian Paul who was working on Highlander: Endgame. I thought "well good, something to look forward to because season 6 is sorely wanting."

    I enjoyed Endgame. It was as though someone said "hey, let's make a Highlander episode into a feature length film with a dash of this and that from the first movie" The quality was beautiful to look at and the story was a good one.

    In the flashbacks, Duncan still looks like Duncan. Those extensions were just right lol. His haircut (in series and movie) looked nice but threw me off. My eyes kept wondering why his face looked different. But his face was unchanged, it was the hair lol. Connor was a little less Connor and I think I understand they were trying to make him look weary and fed up with living but they missed the mark and made an immortal look as though he had aged.

    The first question that popped into my mind when Kate/Faith came into the story was "didn't that fortune teller say Duncan would never marry?" Then I saw that the marriage took place before that fortune was read by his gypsy lover. Eh... It was a beautiful story but I found it hard to take seriously given the series context on marriage and Tessa's death. The story would have been better for me if the fortune teller had noted Duncan had married once but would never marry again. It offers a good explanation for why Duncan leans towards relationships with mortal women and not immortal women long term. Trauma. I wouldn't have minded a flashback or two to the gypsies.

    One thing I find interesting is the parallel between Connor and Duncan and Duncan and Richie in mentor/protege roles. Both Connor and Duncan had an inordinate amount of influence over their students. I couldn't believe Duncan would kill Kate to turn her immortal without first talking to her about it. (To what degree would knowing one is a pre-immortal affect becoming immortal? Isn't the requirement just that one dies violently? Is surprise an important element?) It reminded me of two things, Duncan's friend Walter intent on killing Claudia Jardin to preserve her current youth and talent as an immortal, and Richie deciding not to be with Donna and raise the her baby as the father. Given that Richie didn't live for much longer he should have gone with his heart and ignored Macleod. Both Connor and Duncan used the pain of past personal experience to deter their students from "making the same mistake" which only made them commit greater mistakes rather than following their own good sense.

    I think I will re-watch Endgame tonight. How long was Sanctuary supposed to have existed? Something about that didn't gel for me either. The refrain is that the Watchers don't interfere... except when they're keeping caches of volunteer immortals in holy ground basements? Again, eh...

    Leave a comment:


  • David McMurdo
    replied
    Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
    Could be onto something. Perhaps the writer read that ages ago and snuck the name in.

    I wonder, was the name Jacob Kell a carryover from the "World Without End" stuff, or brand new in the shooting script?
    I do remember that his name was originally Jacob Kase but that they changed it because it was too phonetically similar to "Kane" from Highlander 3. There was some issue over the fact that "Kell" isn't a Scottish name (while Kase is), but they went with it anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jim Kirk
    replied
    Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post
    Is it a good book? Now I want to read it!
    So do I!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Could be onto something. Perhaps the writer read that ages ago and snuck the name in.

    I wonder, was the name Jacob Kell a carryover from the "World Without End" stuff, or brand new in the shooting script?

    Leave a comment:


  • Colleengael
    commented on 's reply
    I guess the grey hair comes if you go so long without a quickening. Your true age starts to creep in.😀

  • dubiousbystander
    replied
    Is it a good book? Now I want to read it!

    Leave a comment:


  • dubiousbystander
    commented on 's reply
    Yeah, I get that. Also the bit about having to be killed violently to trigger the Immortality. I have this dim memory that May Ling and Rebecca, I think, both died via poisoning in their Chronicles. I might be wrong, though.

  • golddragon71
    replied
    I enjoyed it at the time...I don't think the final fight was as badly edited in the theatrical version as it was in the home video version.
    (I really do miss the Connor/Duncan headmorphing in the quickening however)
    the funniest thing happened years later however)
    among my many other interests (Highlander included) I am an avid Trekkie
    while I was getting ready to see the 2011 NuTrek, I went on a tear of watching Classic Trek episodes as well as collecting the old Bantam Star Trek novels released in the 70's and 80's
    One such book caught my eye in a particular way
    Star Trek Devil World

    The detective in me refuses to believe in coincidence, so there must be someone on the movie's writing team who saw this book and figured it was an obscure enough name that they could use it for

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatter76
    replied

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatter76
    replied
    it's a mixed bag, some scenes he looks ok, other scenes terrible, in some scenes he goes from looking younger to older and back over and over, especially in his fight scene with Duncan, he actually looks younger in the re-shot portions. in the Scotland scenes he doesn't look as good as he should have, the didn't give him the hairlace wig like in the first and third movies, instead they used hair extensions, and they are at times noticeable as being blended into his natural hair, especially at the beginning of the Scotland flashback. Connor traditionally has thick Scottish hair in those kind of scenes, but in Endgame, his naturally hair is very noticeably thinner, it would have been nice if they had done the hair-lace wig

    Leave a comment:


  • David McMurdo
    replied
    Yeah, they really messed up with Lambert's hair and makeup on that film. Apparently someone wanted his hair to resemble the sleeked back look that he had in his fight with the Kurgan in the first film. Terrible idea. That's the only scene in the first film where he has that look, so it's not like you look at it and go "that's the Connor Macleod look". The makers of Highlander 3 realised this. It's almost baffling how badly they failed to make him look good in Endgame. Lambert was in roles a decade later where he looked much better. I know that some fans like to say that they made him look worn to show the effects of the Sanctuary, but if that was true then he wouldn't look as terrible in the scenes that take place in the beginning of the film, but he does. They just did a poor job.
    Last edited by David McMurdo; 05-18-2017, 01:54 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatter76
    replied
    Those grays

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    It was strange. When I saw Endgame before ever seeing the series, I loved it, yet I still felt like, "God, there must be SOOO much I'm missing here because I never saw the show." I mean, I still got the basic things, like Methos is really old and Duncan's friend, and Joe is a "good Watcher" who is also Duncan's friend.

    Little did I know that I really wasn't missing anything at all and, in fact, knowledge of what I was "missing" from the series probably -- if not undoubtedly -- would have tainted my viewing experience. I'm sure I'd be mad about Kate, like, "Where did she come from? Why was she never mentioned or hinted at on the show??" and so on.

    Leave a comment:


  • David McMurdo
    replied
    Yeah I hadn't seen a single episode of the series when I watched Endgame. In this country they only showed it at 3am along with the likes of Renegade and so on. I grew up on the films alone. I still remember renting Highlander 3 on VHS as a kid. It took me a while to enjoy the series when I was finally able to watch it—its tone is a world away from the films. It felt far less serious and epic. Instead of each immortal being some kind of legendary character in their own right, you had really silly ones. Of course I love it these days.
    Last edited by David McMurdo; 05-18-2017, 03:09 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hatter76
    replied
    it did work best for me before I saw the full series, when it first came out, I was not well versed in the Series, I hadn't seen more than 20 Episodes all the way through, I liked the show very much, I would catch on TV when I saw that it was on, but back in those days I didn't really make it a point to be in front of the TV at the time it was coming on, but I definitely enjoyed the show, I think it was not long after part 3 came out on video that the first Episode(merged with another Episode) was in the video store, so finally got to see Connor and Duncan together.

    I knew who Joe, Methos and Amanda were, but I didn't really know there histories, I knew them enough though that I knew who they were when I saw Endgame, I knew what the Watchers were, and I obviously knew who Duncan was, but again not in the way that I would had if I had actually seen the whole series at that point. so many many years later when I finally got the Series, it was nice to get properly acquainted with it.


    After seeing all that it, endgame definitely felt that it was a missed opportunity, though it still remains my favorite after the first film

    Leave a comment:


  • Andrew NDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Donut View Post
    I really liked the film back when I first saw it. I also was incredibly disappointed with it.
    There is a lot of good things about it. The bad stuff with it has more to do with the poor editing.
    With a bigger budget and more time, it could have been a great film.

    Overall my dissatisfaction with it is that I went in expecting an adventure movie with the two leads having equal screentime.
    I was wanting to see a bigger more expanded version of the series first episode, instead, I wound up with something very different
    It's an odd thing, when you think about it. It was billed as a team-up adventure... but it was an actual passing-of-the-torch affair. Which didn't really amount to anything beyond Duncan going on to lead "The Source."

    Still, I really dig "Endgame" and its general vibe. It digests best if you haven't seen the series beforehand.

    Leave a comment:


  • Donut
    replied
    I really liked the film back when I first saw it. I also was incredibly disappointed with it.
    There is a lot of good things about it. The bad stuff with it has more to do with the poor editing.
    With a bigger budget and more time, it could have been a great film.

    Overall my dissatisfaction with it is that I went in expecting an adventure movie with the two leads having equal screentime.
    I was wanting to see a bigger more expanded version of the series first episode, instead, I wound up with something very different

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X