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Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi

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  • Star Wars VIII: The Last Jedi





    Any predictions?
    Highlander: Dark Places

  • #2
    One of my friends is deeply unhappy with the treatment of Finn. This has translated into a great deal of anger about Rey. I like Rey, but apparently that can only be expected.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post
      One of my friends is deeply unhappy with the treatment of Finn.
      The treatment of Finn in the trailers for 8, or 7? In 7 he was like the red herring... "Finn is the new Skywalker... PYSCHE!!!!"
      Highlander: Dark Places

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      • dubiousbystander
        dubiousbystander commented
        Editing a comment
        As a young black man, it hurt him that Finn was basically the girl in the movie (by Hollywood writing standards).

    • #4
      As a young black man, it hurt him that Finn was basically the girl in the movie (by Hollywood writing standards).
      Hey, he got out way better than Captain Phasma, and she IS a girl. And was touted as a huge deal all the way leading up to the release of TFA.
      Highlander: Dark Places

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      • #5
        Did everyone like the movie? Is it really as polarizing as it seems?
        Highlander: Dark Places

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        • #6
          I guess it is! I liked it very much. Some of the reasons for people being bothered by things puzzle me. Others I get, but they still don't bother me. I suppose I get the complaint that Finn and Rose's mission not only turned out useless to the rebels, but in fact exposed their escape. However, I think the First Order might have caught on, anyway. The government has to be in complete disarray now, and I doubt the First Order is in any condition to take over. It's all gone lawless out there. Of course arms merchants are making tons of money selling to two sides of this, but both sides seem so small.

          Finn and Rose's mission freed the Fathiers who were captive and inspired the stable children, at least one of whom is a Force sensitive. I really liked how Finn and Rose worked together.

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          • #7
            Here was my review of it... (spoiler-filled):

            To begin with, I'd sure have cut the hell out of the awkward jokes at the very beginning of the movie (to me, Domhall Gleeson's General Hux seemed like a caricature of a high-ranking Imperial officer in TFA, like a kid wearing a general's clothes trying to act tough and unintentionally failing at it... now why would you open the new movie only accentuating that rather than making him actually legit fearsome? it makes it momentarily feel like an Austin Powers sequel to TFA), also a good number of the excessive Marvel-style "better lighten the mood about now!" jokes sprinkled throughout that don't land and don't seem appropriately placed (Yoda DOES have some great humor here, but there's one joke in particular from him that fell completely flat and seemed out of character, about two from Luke, too... all of this kind of stuff can be scrapped)...

            ... but I rather enjoyed it. I did. It didn't feel remakey, which was my #1 worry about this movie after seeing TFA two years ago and the previews for this movie. Having seen it, it mostly felt new and fresh while still having good doses of original Luke and Leia stuff. I'd definitely retailor the ending to have Luke actually physically showing up in his old X-Wing limping there and just fucking wrecking those Walkers with the Force, pulling down TIE Fighters and smashing them into the ground like toys (we needed at least one big "HOLY SHIT!" Force moment with Luke, IMHO) and goading Kylo to come out and face him mano-e-mano, then beating Kylo in a lightsaber battle, but before delivering the killing stroke... rearing back and letting Kylo kill him just like Obi-Wan went out. That'd seem much more digestible and allow Luke to go out like a G and even further sell his guilt about Kylo. It smells like a rewrite to try and salvage earlier written stuff, too. I think the reason that that didn't happen, or something close to it (i.e., Kylo killing not one but two OT characters) was that it will make it too hard to sell Kylo's full turn to the Light in IX. I also think Rey is going to go full-on evil in the next one, but that's neither here or there. And don't believe the big parents reveal here at all.

            But that's just what *I'd* do. What's there isn't bad. I like the organic cutting back and forth throughout. It's actually shocking how much the Resistance loses in this. We begin, it's a giant Mon Calamari Cruiser, a bunch of bombers, a bunch of frigates that go blooie... then it's a handful of escape ships... then it's reduced to a scant number of people that are all able to fit on the Falcon. Shesus. Probably 800,000 people died on-screen. It could be argued that more people died in TFA with the five planets that were destroyed, but not one care was given to it by the script or the filmmakers. "POOF! Possibly 20 billion lives gone, let's not even talk about it," was the order of the day 2 years ago. So why would the audience care or even make note? This movie actually made every ship going blooie make me worry.

            Since TFA I've been complaining that I have no idea what the political landscape is or what the lay of the land is, which means I don't know what the stakes are or basically even what's going on at all. Eh, I kind of understand it now. It's pretty dodgy, but I think I can wrap my head around it now. ROTJ => Empire is defeated => Rebel Alliance forms the New Republic => 35 years of peace (I guess?) => Resistance is formed quietly to be on guard from what the First Order is doing (while for reasons unknown the New Republic is 100% pacifistic, we're told) => First Order blows up those planets in TFA and dismantles the New Republic, leaving only their oddly-named "Resistance" around. I just wish they'd clarified this all a bit better. I have a strong suspicion that it's that Disney is deathly afraid that even the slightest, most passing discussion of galactic politics in-movie will equate to "Oh nooes!! Politics! That's what everyone on the internets complained about in the prequel trilogy!!! Avoid it at all costs!!" Even if it prevents audiences from having even the most basic understanding of who is fighting who and for why after the last movies.

            If TFA made me sad that there wasn't actually any fighting in space (i.e., no... Star... Wars?), TLJ made me sad that two movies into this new trilogy, we haven't had even one good lightsaber battle. In TFA it was a semi-rookie vs. full-on rookie lightsaber fight... and it was truncated. This time we get a "let me Force-push a button on my lightsaber and kill you without any fight" fight with Snoke, a scuffle with non-Force users in that same throne room, then a FAKE lightsaber fight between Kylo and Luke where one of them wasn't even actually there. C'mon, folks. It's not hard math. You have to make original stories, but a numbered Star Wars film? At least one great lightsaber fight is a prerequisite. I did enjoy the artsy, samurai-esque touches to the FAKE Kylo-Luke fight with the footwork and angles, though.

            No idea where they'll go from here. I suspect they'll do a big time lapse after this and maybe it's "Yay! We found some star systems that will help, plus we have these here 19 year old Jedis Rey has trained!" But yeesh. TLJ isn't even set up on a cliffhanger, really. The whole saga could just end here and it sort of works. If TFA was ANH on crack, TLJ wasn't TESB, but it does amplify the grim impact of its ending tenfold.

            Sidenote: didn't the last movie literally show us that when you jump into Hyperspace, you phase through any physical matter in your path, even if it's 5 meters in front of you? That makes the Admiral's sacrifice kind of impossible.

            These kind of rankings pop up but are meaningless so close to having seen the latest movie to add into the equation (always have... go back and look at most people's rankings of the Indy movies right when Indy 4 came out, as one example), but I'll play anyway:

            Personally...

            1. Star Wars, Episode IV: A New Hope
            2. Star Wars, Episode VI: Return of the Jedi
            3. Star Wars, Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back
            4. Star Wars, Episode I: The Phantom Menace
            5. Star Wars, Episode VIII: The Last Jedi
            6. Star Wars, Episode III: Revenge of the Sith
            Little bit of a gap, and then:
            7. Star Wars, Episode II: Attack of the Clones
            8. Star Wars, Episode VII: The Force Awakens

            Disclaimer: I watched this movie after having spoiled myself on all of the spoilers in the movie. I think this helped. My expectations were tempered.
            Highlander: Dark Places

            Comment


            • n107
              n107 commented
              Editing a comment
              What scene from TFA are you talking about with the hyperspace showing a ship phasing through a physical object?

          • #8
            I've actually never liked Finn...or Poe. They seem like empty suits, creatures of no real substance. I am, however, impressed with the guy playing Kylo Ren, Adam Driver. I think he's probably the best actor of the new crop. I quite liked his sneak attack on Snoke - whatever the hell he was. And I rather like Rose as well.
            But see what Disney is doing here? They're rewriting the Jedi handbook, while there have always been Force sensitives and Force manipulators all over the galaxy, not too many ever took the path of the Jedi for the full training - Disney seems to be saying no training is necessary raw power is enough.
            I found myself shaking my head over such plot holes as all ready discussed, and wishing for a better script.
            My next question is now that they have taken out two of the big three from the original trilogy in story, leaving only Leia who sadly was taken out of story rather more permanently, what are they going to do with those rewrites?

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            • dubiousbystander
              dubiousbystander commented
              Editing a comment
              I keep coming back to Jedi not being allowed to form attachments. Here we have this Force sensitivity, which runs in families though some people seem to have it just by evolution, and Jedi policy is to keep their kind from having young? Yeesh!!

            • Ceridwen
              Ceridwen commented
              Editing a comment
              That's all much later. If you ever read Tales of the Jedi you'll see that 'Jedi' families were the norm a few thousand years ago. The priesthood aspect they now tout is both ridiculous and counterproductive.

            • dubiousbystander
              dubiousbystander commented
              Editing a comment
              Heh. A few thousand years ago.

          • #9
            Originally posted by Ceridwen View Post
            I've actually never liked Finn...or Poe. They seem like empty suits, creatures of no real substance. I am, however, impressed with the guy playing Kylo Ren, Adam Driver. I think he's probably the best actor of the new crop.
            Yeah, his character is easily the standout of any of the new ones. The rest are just as you say, empty suits... largely reactionary.

            But see what Disney is doing here? They're rewriting the Jedi handbook, while there have always been Force sensitives and Force manipulators all over the galaxy, not too many ever took the path of the Jedi for the full training - Disney seems to be saying no training is necessary raw power is enough.
            Maybe. I suspect we'll see a 5-10 year time lapse between VIII and IX, and Rey setting up some kind of new Academy.

            My next question is now that they have taken out two of the big three from the original trilogy in story, leaving only Leia who sadly was taken out of story rather more permanently, what are they going to do with those rewrites?
            Yeah, it's really sad. It's like Johnson and everyone really gambled wrong (though we can still have Force Ghost Luke... though that's not very comforting). And it's not "rewrites"... Kathleen Kennedy rejected Colin Trevorrow's script entirely, which he put together after Fisher died. With JJ on IX now, JJ and Chris Terrio started from scratch on their script. Apparently they pitched it a week ago and they're still aboard, so Kennedy must have liked it.
            Highlander: Dark Places

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