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  • #26
    All sequels require an additional theory to make it fit. 2 isn´t any different therein. Why do you consider 2 the only one that doesn't need one?
    May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

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    • #27
      Because it retroactively adds to the first. It doesn't change the narrative of the first. What Connor went through in the present of the first still occurred, very much the way it did. 3 makes Connor into an idiot, and a liar (what the hell is he talking about to Brenda, if he DIDN'T win the Prize?). Unwittingly, though, but man, it doesn't work in many ways. And the show? It cannot possibly follow the narrative, because it actively ignores it in order for it to exist.

      Comment


      • #28
        Yeah, Highlander II is the only follow-up that starts with Connor having the Prize...and even using it for the benefit of humankind! Highlander III hits us with that ridiculous line, "But you see, the Prize was never yours," even though Connor ended the first film with advanced ESP and the voice of Ramirez affirming his victory from beyond the grave! That's a pretty major retcon, which further condemns the third movie for rejecting the TV show canon.
        __________________________________________________

        "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
        --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

        Comment


        • #29
          Highlander II does the same basically. Connor receiving the Prize even though Reno, Corda and Katana were supposedly still around.
          Besides that it makes the Prize redundant too because immortals can be summoned at will.
          May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

          Comment


          • #30
            Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post
            Yeah, Highlander II is the only follow-up that starts with Connor having the Prize...
            How did 3 not? Seemed like he'd spent the post-NYC years trying to help people across the globe, even taking in a kid in need as his own. They added gray to Connor's temples in at least the beginning parts to show his continued mortality. While stupid, as soon as Kane and his posse emerged from the mountain, those blue shockwaves seen the sky in Morocco were clearly meant to imply, literally, "Game... Resumed!"

            They just didn't dwell on it, or really make that a big plot point.
            Highlander: Dark Places

            Comment


            • #31
              Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post
              Highlander II does the same basically. Connor receiving the Prize even though Reno, Corda and Katana were supposedly still around.
              They weren't still around. In the theatrical cut, they were on another planet. In the director's cut, they were in the distant past. Either way, we know that Connor won the Prize because he had grown old and mortal. Connor in H3 wasn't mortal. He had no powers. He hadn't changed the world. He hadn't aged (even if the actor had). It's an entirely different situation altogether.

              Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
              How did 3 not?
              I answered that question in the part of my post you didn't quote...Kane flat-out says he didn't.

              Seemed like he'd spent the post-NYC years trying to help people across the globe, even taking in a kid in need as his own.
              Seemed like he hid out in Marakesh after Brenda died in Scotland (while he survived thanks to his still-present immortality) and adopted a kid (whom he couldn't beget naturally thanks to his still-present immortality). Not really saving anyone but himself.

              They added gray to Connor's temples in at least the beginning parts to show his continued mortality.
              Umm...did they add gray to his temples in The Hunted as well? Pretty sure that's just his natural hair.
              __________________________________________________

              "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
              --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

              Comment


              • #32
                Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post

                They weren't still around. In the theatrical cut, they were on another planet. In the director's cut, they were in the distant past. Either way, we know that Connor won the Prize because he had grown old and mortal. Connor in H3 wasn't mortal. He had no powers. He hadn't changed the world. He hadnt aged (even if the actor had). It's an entirely different situation altogether.
                if they were in the distant past they were part of the game. So no Prize could have been given. Or did they die in the past as well? Then Highlander II would be confirming the Multiverse.
                And he didn't get the Prize again after killing Reno and Corda.
                May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                Comment


                • #33
                  Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post

                  if they were in the distant past they were part of the game. So no Prize could have been given. Or did they die in the past as well?
                  It doesn't matter. When Connor defeated Kurgan, there was NO ONE AROUND. He literally got old and almost died before the two returned and visibly brought him back to the Game. You clearly haven't seen the movie in a while.

                  And he didn't get the Prize again after killing Reno and Corda.
                  He did. He used the Prize to bring back Ramirez. Then Katana came, Ramirez died, Connor killed Katana and with his Quickening, destroyed the Shield, claiming the Prize once again.

                  Technically, Connor won the Prize three times in the first two films.

                  Comment


                  • #34
                    No one being in the vicinity ≠ being the last one.

                    May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                    Comment


                    • #35
                      The Gathering isn't being fought across time and space. How hard is that to understand?

                      Comment


                      • #36
                        Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post
                        if they were in the distant past they were part of the game. So no Prize could have been given.
                        That's kinda like saying that Connor couldn't win the Prize because the Kurgan was still alive a second before Connor chopped off his head.

                        Or did they die in the past as well?
                        Well, globviously. Anyone who was part of the Game in the past must have died before 1985.

                        Then Highlander II would be confirming the Multiverse.
                        The director's cut of Highlander II is pretty much the #1 argument for a multiverse. Once you throw in time travel, multiple timelines are almost expected.
                        __________________________________________________

                        "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                        --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                        Comment


                        • #37
                          Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post

                          That's kinda like saying that Connor couldn't win the Prize because the Kurgan was still alive a second before Connor chopped off his head.
                          no it isn't. There isn't a mention of Katana, Reno or Corda dying. And even if there was they can't die twice in the same timeline. Or did someone other false prizewinner resurrect them too?



                          Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post
                          Well, globviously. Anyone who was part of the Game in the past must have died before 1985.
                          And therefore cannot be alive in 2024 unless they would be from a different timeline/reality.



                          Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post
                          The director's cut of Highlander II is pretty much the #1 argument for a multiverse. Once you throw in time travel, multiple timelines are almost expected.
                          True, but unfortunately it isn't mentioned explicitly.

                          May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                          Comment


                          • #38
                            For all intents and purposes, they would be "dead" from the time they transported through time until 2024. It's not as if they were hanging out in a cave somewhere. They literally didn't exist for most of human history. (And obviously there was only so much the filmmakers could do to rewrite their film in 1995 after having gone with the Zeist idea originally. The alien thing was stupid, but it made more sense. The Prize was always Earth-bound.)
                            __________________________________________________

                            "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                            --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                            Comment


                            • #39
                              Oooh, I have one! The asteroid hit Earth and all of the Immortals died, because everyone lost heads and bodies! Hahahahahah! AND... and since there was no one to take the prize, the Quickenings pooled, created The Source, which distributes Quickenings all over the world that appear as babies, who grow up to be the men... and women... they once were... in no particular order, just whenever there's enough of one distilled to recreate the individual... And so the Immortal who gets to the Source will only be accepted if he or she is the one that wants to create life, because The Source's purpose is to restore the Immortals... ooooh. I think I've got it.

                              Comment


                              • #40
                                Originally posted by Tootsie Bee View Post
                                For all intents and purposes, they would be "dead" from the time they transported through time until 2024. It's not as if they were hanging out in a cave somewhere. They literally didn't exist for most of human history. (And obviously there was only so much the filmmakers could do to rewrite their film in 1995 after having gone with the Zeist idea originally. The alien thing was stupid, but it made more sense. The Prize was always Earth-bound.)
                                The Prize still requires all the Quickenings pooled into one. Therefore with Highlander II, Connor didn't win the Prize(s) either, yet was somehow able to utilise the Quickening of Reno and Corda to revive Ramírez.

                                Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post
                                Oooh, I have one! The asteroid hit Earth and all of the Immortals died, because everyone lost heads and bodies! Hahahahahah! AND... and since there was no one to take the prize, the Quickenings pooled, created The Source, which distributes Quickenings all over the world that appear as babies, who grow up to be the men... and women... they once were... in no particular order, just whenever there's enough of one distilled to recreate the individual... And so the Immortal who gets to the Source will only be accepted if he or she is the one that wants to create life, because The Source's purpose is to restore the Immortals... ooooh. I think I've got it.
                                Asteroid hitting? Immortal Dinosaurs! :P

                                Interesting though to have the Source not be an origin but a consequence of a major immortal disaster.
                                From Atlantis to Zeist, that actually opens possibilities. (Highlander 6: Origins anyone?)
                                May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                                Comment


                                • #41
                                  Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post
                                  The Prize still requires all the Quickenings pooled into one.
                                  The films never say any such thing. In fact, the Quickening was a drastically different concept in the first two movies. It was the "kind of magic" itself.

                                  Therefore with Highlander II, Connor didn't win the Prize(s) either.
                                  Except he did, by the movie's own perspective. That's what differentiates it from the third film, which explicitly says that he didn't win the Prize.
                                  __________________________________________________

                                  "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                                  --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                                  Comment


                                  • #42
                                    Can III be considered a prequel to II in your opinion then?
                                    May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                                    Comment


                                    • #43
                                      No. Brenda Wyatt's death by solar radiation in 1995 is essential to the plot of Highlander II, but Highlander III insisted on a new love interest for Connor in 1994. If not for that one issue, you could aaaalmost fudge it and say that the ozone layer problems dramatically increased over a single year, I guess.
                                      __________________________________________________

                                      "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                                      --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                                      Comment


                                      • #44
                                        Gentlemen, if becoming the One would cause you to lose your immortality, would you do it? I don't think getting old would be compensated for by omniscience and power unless you could permanently fix the problems of the universe. Or, to put it another way, if I'm going to sacrifice eternal youth, there'd better be a better pay off than Connor got.
                                        “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                        Billy Sunday

                                        Comment


                                        • #45
                                          Originally posted by Coolwater View Post
                                          Gentlemen, if becoming the One would cause you to lose your immortality, would you do it? I don't think getting old would be compensated for by omniscience and power unless you could permanently fix the problems of the universe. Or, to put it another way, if I'm going to sacrifice eternal youth, there'd better be a better pay off than Connor got.
                                          Immortals 'live on' inside their victor (acknowledged in the series, comics, Endgame and Dark Places) so the Prize might just be worthwhile even if it means becoming mortal.
                                          May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                                          Comment


                                          • #46
                                            I dunno, Nicholas. Their personalities have influence on the absorbing person, but I wouldn't call that living.
                                            “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                            Billy Sunday

                                            Comment


                                            • #47
                                              Their personal traits manifest through morphing their body or as an illusion: Alec Hill through Richie, Connor through Duncan, Kurgan through a mirror with Connor and in Dark places they straight up take over and manifest as disembodies entities. That's not influencing, that's having their own personal Quickening space within their conqueror.
                                              May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

                                              Comment


                                              • #48
                                                Originally posted by Coolwater View Post
                                                If I'm going to sacrifice eternal youth, there'd better be a better pay off than Connor got.
                                                He got to grow old together with the woman he loved. Wait: never mind. She died in every sequel.
                                                __________________________________________________

                                                "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                                                --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                                                Comment


                                                • dubiousbystander
                                                  dubiousbystander commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  I think they were taking that "Just one year of love" a little too literally.

                                                • Tootsie Bee
                                                  Tootsie Bee commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  Of course, the truth is that Brenda got a lucrative nursing job at Chicago Hope and dumped that mopey immortal.

                                                • dubiousbystander
                                                  dubiousbystander commented
                                                  Editing a comment
                                                  Heeheeehee Hm. Must make this long enough. I like it, Tootsie!

                                              • #49
                                                Um.. Immortals died when they die. If their imprints on life, and impressions of thereof are imparted to the victor, so be it. But its not the same to say someone's life experience and essence is apparent in them and "he lives in them". That's just nonsense.

                                                Also, I had the impression the Prize in the first film was whatever the victor wanted it to be.

                                                Comment


                                                • #50
                                                  Lucrative nursing job... now there is an outlandish concept.
                                                  “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                                  Billy Sunday

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Tootsie Bee
                                                    Tootsie Bee commented
                                                    Editing a comment
                                                    I'm sure playing one on TV is lucrative, though. Certainly enough to make someone turn down Highlander III: The Remakening.
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