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How would you introduce a new fan into Highlander?

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  • How would you introduce a new fan into Highlander?

    Would you just show them the first film alone? The first film, then the the third, then the TV show and Endgame? The first film, second film (with a disclaimer), and then everything else? Some variation?

    What do you feel is the best road map for a new potential fan? Let's assume the potential fan likes the first movie... what's next for them?
    Highlander: Dark Places

  • #2
    The first film. If they don't like that, they won't like anything else.

    If they want more, I'd show them the second and get that over with, then I'd really, really try hard to persuade them to watch a very Renegade-esque 90's show that actually features a demon near the end and almost ruins the experience for everybody.

    Yeah, I tried that.

    Comment


    • #3
      The first film, then the the third, then the TV show and Endgame seems a good start.
      May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

      Comment


      • #4
        For maximum enjoyment I think I would have them go H1, H3, H4 for a new fan... then go encourage them to go and do seasons 1-6, Raven, re-watch Endgame (it will be a very different experience this time). I'd offer The Source or H2 only with extreme prefacing and warning.
        Highlander: Dark Places

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Aleander View Post
          The first film. If they don't like that, they won't like anything else.

          If they want more, I'd show them the second and get that over with, then I'd really, really try hard to persuade them to watch a very Renegade-esque 90's show that actually features a demon near the end and almost ruins the experience for everybody.

          Yeah, I tried that.
          If my first introduction to Highlander had been any of the films, I would not have watched anything else.

          I would start with the series, but not necessarily in order. My first episode was "Homeland". It introduced nearly all the important facts about immortality and it definitely worked for me.

          Comment


          • Aleander
            Aleander commented
            Editing a comment
            You don't like the only good film in this franchise?

        • #6
          I actually showed a high school girlfriend Endgame first, then The Final Dimension.

          She liked Endgame better and wound up enjoying the series (I started her off with season 3). When I finally showed her the first film, she said it was too slow and poorly made -- which, I mean, she kinda had a point, especially compared to the production value and choreography of Endgame -- and was happy I didn't start her off with it. She then laughed her ass off throughout much of the second film (renegade version). I never got around to showing her The Raven or even the first and second seasons before she left for college (she was a year ahead of me), and long distance ended our relationship, but yeah.

          The only other person I've actively tried getting into it was a friend who eventually claimed to have watched the first film on my recommendation and then just never felt like continuing on thereafter.

          So yeah, I'm gonna say the first film is a bad place to start for modern audiences.

          Comment


          • #7
            My dad preferred Endgame over the others, but he also loved 2 because of Connery, and he despised Lambert with a passion.

            Also, what production value? Endgame looks like it was shot in Romania.

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            • #8
              Originally posted by Aleander View Post
              Also, what production value? Endgame looks like it was shot in Romania.
              The first film looks like a low budget 80's B movie (which it was), but Endgame looks like your typical late 90's/early 00's Hollywood fare (which it tried to be). Visually speaking, the production value on Endgame was leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the franchise.

              Comment


              • #9
                Endgame has worse production value than some episodes of the TV show (especially from Season 4 on). It looks direct-to-video.

                I would go with the first two films and then tell them that there's a TV series if they're into low-budget white-people-do-martial-arts stuff from the 90s (where's Cynthia Rothrock when you need her?), but if I were to choose an episode of the series, I'd certainly agree with Mathpiglet on "Homeland." It's the best entry point for an audience outside of the original film. If I hated the person, I'd start with The Source.
                __________________________________________________

                "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                Comment


                • #10
                  "Leaps and bounds"? Its easily cheaper-looking than the first three films, particularly than second film, which looks awesome even today. Budget-wise, it had half of the third film's budget. Visually, there's nothing remotely distinctive about Endgame other than the cemetery scene (which was done mostly in post), the Connor-Duncan duel (because of the JVC sign) and... yeah, that's it. Unless you count the greenscreen monstrosity that was Duncan standing over Connor's grave as "quality" photography.

                  Strictly visually, the second and third films, and The Raven (and select episodes from the Series' seasons 3-5) are the best looking, but the original's style and look is basically what the best of what's come since has tried to emulate. Period.

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                  • #11
                    I'd introduce them the first two films, as well, and then I'd basically say that the show is a reboot of the franchise (which by today's stnardards, it is) and go from there, if they're interested and are not turned off by the ruggish look of it for the first two seasons (season 2 especially looks bad).

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Maybe I think of the visual production value as being better due to the fact that the BD transfer of Endgame is the best looking of all the films (at least as far as the releases I have are concerned) -- likely due to its younger age and/or lack of overdone effect sequences -- but her comment still rings true, to me. Compared to Endgame, the first film is relatively slow (focusing more on the drama, which isn't necessarily a bad thing) and poorly made (let's be honest, the choreography is awful throughout most of the film, and when your plot centers itself around sword fights that's a huge problem).

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        The fight choreography is fine in the first film. Its Bob Anderson, after all. Fairly varied and more traditional. Even portions of the second are OK. The third film, however...

                        And Endgame was supposed to be slow, too. Just see the Rough Cut and how all scenes were shortened like mad for the released cuts. The film is nigh unwatchable, simply because Dimension did what Dimension does: butcher genre sequels.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          To demonstrate my point, here's a clip from the third entry in Gregory Widen's other supernatural franchise, released the same year as Endgame by the same studio, direct-to-video:

                          __________________________________________________

                          "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                          --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                          Comment


                          • dubiousbystander
                            dubiousbystander commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I only recently found out there are five, now.

                          • Tootsie Bee
                            Tootsie Bee commented
                            Editing a comment
                            I can't wait for Backdraft 5.

                        • #15
                          To say Endgame has the same visual production value as the third Prophecy film seems outrageous to me, but then my BD collection of those includes almost all of them on the same disc, so they're probably compressed to hell.

                          Comment


                          • #16
                            If you want a second example, there's always Hellraiser: Inferno, another DTV Dimension sequel from 2000. It too looks comparable to Endgame:



                            The first film was shot on cheap film stock, but stylistically, it rests somewhere between The Hitcher and Manhunter from the same year. And I find it bizarre to accuse a film that managed to recreate a convincing ancient Scottish battle on a tiny budget of having low production value. All of the money is on the screen.
                            __________________________________________________

                            "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                            --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                            Comment


                            • #17
                              I had a friend gradually come to hate the series. Coltek being slaughtered while everyone (Methos) moved heaven and earth to save Mac was the final straw for her.

                              Comment


                              • #18
                                My friends had a problem with the show's double standards towards Duncan, as well. Especially after Richie's death - why would anyone hang around him after that senseless death? Sure, Ahriman's a demon and yadayadayada, but not everyone has to believe him. Amanda should actively avoid him, and Methos should never have come back. Conversely, they were just as peeved as I was when Joe and Methos didn't believe Duncan about the stuff he was seeing. After three or four years of blindly following his lead on every other case, now they choose to be dickish towards him?

                                Comment


                                • dubiousbystander
                                  dubiousbystander commented
                                  Editing a comment
                                  *waves hand helplessly* I decided that Methos disappeared because he didn't want to be close enough for Ahriman to tempt him. "Never saw a demon in 5,000 years" is a pretty boxing decision for the writers to make. Unless he lies. Or has blanks in his memory. He could, you know.

                              • #19
                                That all comes down to how it was originally written, but you know that.

                                After Richie died, there was supposed to be a 20 year leap in time where Duncan secluded himself off from everyone while Ahriman brought death and destruction to the world, leading to Joe and Methos seeking him out to bring him back to the fight. They even filmed the 20 years later scene to set it up, but cut it out of the season finale due to contract renegotiations leading to the decision to shorten the sixth season, make it the last, and just set up a spin off instead of paying Adrian Paul what he felt he deserved to carry on with the show.

                                We would've had a much different franchise if that had been kept.

                                Comment


                                • #20
                                  Originally posted by Takk View Post
                                  We would've had a much different franchise if that had been kept.
                                  I guess. I mean, we basically would have had a whole season of The Source to kill the franchise even sooner.
                                  __________________________________________________

                                  "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                                  --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                                  Comment


                                  • #21
                                    Possibly, or we would've had a whole season to do a Source-like story properly that could've provided proper closure to overall concepts of the franchise, or even transformed it into some sort of post apocalyptic powerhouse... or any number of what if scenarios, really... some better, some worse.

                                    Comment


                                    • #22
                                      I wish we could comment on a comment, but we can't. Anyway, Aleander, no, I don't like any of the movies. That's just an opinion, but the movies are darker and more violent than I like. These aspects tend to be toned down in the Series, which is why I prefer those.

                                      Comment


                                      • Tootsie Bee
                                        Tootsie Bee commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        You can comment on the same post as the previous comment...

                                      • Tootsie Bee
                                        Tootsie Bee commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        ...if you like.

                                      • mathpiglet
                                        mathpiglet commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Thanks, Toots.

                                    • #23
                                      Mathpiglet, you managed to touch upon one of my main problems with the TV show. For me, at least, a story about people decapitating each other with swords pretty much has to be rated R. Otherwise, it feels to me that the violence of the premise is being trivialized. It should feel unpleasant. Of course, the handful of episodes that don't focus on the immortals' nasty habit of murdering each other on a weekly basis do much better with the lighter tone.
                                      __________________________________________________

                                      "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
                                      --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

                                      Comment


                                      • mathpiglet
                                        mathpiglet commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Because I saw the show first, it was the historic nature which attracted me. I sort of tune out the violence.

                                    • #24
                                      But the show's fairly dark, as well. I don't think its at all lighter in tone - hell, we only think that because its a decidedly cheaper and safer-made show than the already cheap films (well, except 2 and 3). I mean, this is a show every week, someone has their head chopped and at least several others have to die as well, be in flashback or otherwise. Death is fairly prevalent, and sugarcoating it as they might've, its still there.

                                      I mean, even if we don't see Duncan decapitate those people, he still severed 70+ people's heads in the show, including his foster son/pupil. hell, he prepped that said pupil to do the same! Hell, Methos killed THOUSANDS of people and probably in the very same or similar way. Just because we have some colorful character who manage to live their lives besides the fact that they have to kill each other in order to survive, doesn't mean that these cahracters or their actions can't be violent.

                                      I mean, in Raven, AMANDA, the most carefree person in the show's history, progresses into a proper Game player. Fans didn't like that, but I did because it showed her growth in light of the ongoing Game.

                                      The first film wasn't even that gory. In fact, it pretty much encompassed everything that is great and fantastic about the show. It featured endearing characters that you would follow anywhere (maybe, not you maybe, since you clearly have a dislike for Connor and Ramirez), a romantic storyline in flashback that was heartbreaking and emotional, convincing period pieces, great duels (no matter what some may say, no one shall doubt the great Bob Anderson), a character arc that concerned the protagonist's angst with Immortality and its setbacks, and an entertaining villain. And it also has exciting cinematography and a great score, complete with the most iconic of Queen song set ever. To dislike it because it shows decapitations is like not accepting the concept for what it is: A survival game played out throughout the centuries.

                                      Sure, the show didn't concern with the Gathering at all since season 3, but that didn't mean it stopped being a concern. Otherwise, Duncan wouldn't be killing those Evil Immies, he'd just detain them in the nearest local authority. After all, that would save him some trauma. But he didn't, because he knew that letting the likes of Kronos, Coltec or Xavier would only mean more possible contenders to the Prize, ones that would misuse it when the time would come.

                                      Comment


                                      • Aleander
                                        Aleander commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Its not small at all. Its the plot device that enables Duncan to kill every bad guy. Otherwise, he's just a murderer. And if you think the first film is solely about the sword fights, you don't know what you're talking about.

                                      • Tootsie Bee
                                        Tootsie Bee commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Now play nice, Aleander. :P

                                      • mathpiglet
                                        mathpiglet commented
                                        Editing a comment
                                        Ah Aleander, rest easy. If you prefer to think I don't know what I'm talking about, that's fine. Enjoy!
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