Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Will a pre-Immortal REALLY die of old age?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Will a pre-Immortal REALLY die of old age?

    Are we sure that is what really happens? Have we ever seen it happen, or heard of a pre-Immortal who has died peacefully in their sleep?

    Or... does it become like the Elder? i.e., you can keep physically growing older, but not dying.
    11
    Yes, we're sure
    45.45%
    5
    No, not sure
    54.55%
    6
    Yeah, it'd be like the Elder
    0%
    0
    Highlander: Dark Places

  • #2
    Dying of old age doesn't exist. Not even in mortals.
    It's more likely that we don't see or hear about them much because they don't last long in the Game.
    May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Nicholas Ward View Post
      Dying of old age doesn't exist. Not even in mortals.
      It's more likely that we don't see or hear about them much because they don't last long in the Game.
      Not directly, but simple things can lead to death for elderly people that younger people wouldn't die from.
      Gonna change my evil ways...one of these days

      Comment


      • #4
        Would be nice to have seen an episode about that.
        Isn't the established rule that the immortality can only be triggered by the shock of a violent death.
        If the pre-immortal grows old and dies of an illness or something with a slow effect, it won't trigger the immortality and they would simply die.
        Power to the Donut!

        Comment


        • Coolwater
          Coolwater commented
          Editing a comment
          That was "established" in Endgame to give the writer the excuse to have Duncan murder Faithless and have her roar off in a huff. "Ooh, I'd rather have had children and a normal life" - but of course WE know that as a pre-im, she was sterile. But the writer didn't, so Duncan couldn't have told her. And, frankly, it was unlikely that a woman of that period would have been given a choice about anything by her husband.

          Can you say McGuffin? I knew you could!

      • #5
        It was introduced in the season finale of "The Raven." "Endgame" just followed suit. (re: shock of a violent death) So it's backed up by both TV and film... my only question is... could it be bollocks?
        Highlander: Dark Places

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by Andrew NDB View Post
          It was introduced in the season finale of "The Raven." "Endgame" just followed suit. (re: shock of a violent death) So it's backed up by both TV and film... my only question is... could it be bollocks?
          I want it to be bollocks. Hahah. I really think they should have built to this, rather than suddenly introducing it. Not unlike Kate... The biggest problem I would have imagined Duncan having is trying to NOT save her from danger that might trigger her immortality. That would have been a bit better. His killing her... that was just unbelievable and seemed more like the proverbial act-of-God. They just didn't make me believe that Duncan would do that.

          Comment


          • #7
            I agree with Andrew.

            In the modern age, there would be quite a few that avoid violent death and never become immortals.

            Comment


            • #8
              Is there some sort of bug in the vote system?

              Comment


              • Andrew NDB
                Andrew NDB commented
                Editing a comment
                There is not.

              • dubiousbystander
                dubiousbystander commented
                Editing a comment
                I just felt as though I'd voted more than once!

            • #9
              We know the truth about immortals: they age naturally until they reach their intergalactic banishment age, and then they age in nigh-undetectable Zeist years.
              __________________________________________________

              "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
              --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

              Comment


              • #10
                It is well established that the immortals believe their immortality can only take hold through the shock of a violent death, however, like the supposed purpose of the game, we have no canonical evidence that their beliefs are accurate. So to answer your inquiry, we know what they think they know, but that doesn't mean it's true.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Suddenly bringing it up in the final episode of The Raven, and also suddenly bringing it up to use as a provocation to make Duncan kill Kate in Endgame does not qualify as well-established. No opportunity to see someone fretting worriedly over an aging pre-immortal that we ever knew of, for example. Perhaps Mikey died peacefully, resulting in brain damage?

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Considering the time between those two specific and clearly stated instances, and the fact that it's something they 'know', though we've never seen them talk about it before, clearly sets it up as something that is a well established belief of theirs in universe, regardless of how sudden the information being given may have felt to us as viewers, or how true it may actually be to their reality.

                    Comment


                    • Takk
                      Takk commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Well then I would look to the ever prosperous concept of screen vs literature. If a franchise begun in film says something on screen, it supersedes spin off literature, and vice versa. The Watcher Chronicles may have been made as a companion to the series, but clearly the spin off to follow decided what may have been said there is not necessarily canon. Just as the Star Wars prequels ruined several editions of the Star Wars encyclopedia, so too did The Raven ruin the Watcher Chronicles.

                    • Nicholas Ward
                      Nicholas Ward commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Wouldn't the assumption that what is described or shown earlier is canon and that the newly added info might be inaccurate, hold as much merit then? After all there is the option that a characters notion or understanding of their universe is flawed.

                    • Takk
                      Takk commented
                      Editing a comment
                      That is true, however, if something regarding a filmed franchise isn't actually on screen, but is just text based in a book or even in a special features screen on a DVD (as a lot of the WCs are), it holds less weight than even an assumption that is actually used as a plot device on screen. That said, with a franchise that has as much convoluted "canon " potential as Highlander does, I really think it's just best for everyone to make their own canon at this point. Especially with a reboot on the horizon, wherein the canon will be wiped and re-presented anew. But such as it is.

                  • #13
                    I'm not "voting," because I have no idea who or what the "Elder" is. But I choose to believe that while a pre-Immortal can only become Immortal after an accidental or violent death, they literally can't die in any other way (with the sole exception of a slow-acting poison, revealed in "Raven"). I think they probably have something in their DNA that causes them to be either accident-prone or drawn to a risk-filled lifestyle, so almost all of them become full Immortals while still young and vigorous. If a pre-Immortal really does reach old age, the shock of a "minor" slip and fall will be enough to "kill" the person and make him or her Immortal. Probably in a visibly aged, but strong and healthy, body.

                    Oh, I agree with the person who pointed out that no one can literally "die of old age"! I think the most frequent cause of death for older adults is pneumonia. A pre-Immortal couldn't die in that way.

                    About their aging in general, how "normal" their lives might have been if they hadn't become full Immortals when they did: I think Kate/Faith, in Endgame, is completely wrong in thinking she might have had children. It seems that in the 18th century, Duncan and Connor might have believed that too. But Immortality doesn't come with an instruction manual! Two hundred years later, we hear Duncan telling Richie he (Richie) couldn't have fathered a child even while he was a pre-Immortal.
                    Last edited by Wilusa; 09-25-2017, 11:50 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Tootsie Bee
                      Tootsie Bee commented
                      Editing a comment
                      The Elder is the morbidly obese blue guy from The Source.

                  • #14
                    Every once in a while, Norman says that "canon" is basically a bad thing. I have two pieces that fans seem to have decided MUST be canon that I object to because they really limit creativity. Fan conviction that something apocalyptic must happen if Immortals fight on Holy Ground caused TPTB to change Endgame. Now, the absolute answer can remain in doubt simply with the reasoning that no fight occurred, and heck Kell's taking those heads could even be regarded as mercy killing. A shortage of imagination, in that people just have some difficulty believing that "no Immortals will fight on Holy Ground" can be true. I also suggest a theory that perhaps true Holy Ground projects a pacifying aura, so that Immortals just don't feel like truly fighting when they are there. As soon as you say it must be apocalyptic, you're coming up against the fact that many of the baddies we've seen would do it just because. Some as a form of suicide. It's easy also for me to think there may be something "programmed" into them.

                    As to the children part, as soon as you say they have mortal mothers, you're coming up against the question of what happened to those mothers? What reason can there be for no one knowing where the babies come from? Unless there's one like "When mortal women are pregnant with Immortals, they feel a compulsion to go to a faraway land (haha!) where nobody knows them, and hide until the baby is born whereupon they disintegrate." I always hate that idea that the mothers have to die. Thus, ANYTIME someone suggests that some positive agency (The Source, God, whatever) is dropping Immortals down... there is nothing positive about something that kills any woman who carries one of these children. There is also nothing positive about something that drops newborn infants willy-nilly, not making certain they even make it to adulthood before the death that triggers their Immortality, or that they are even in the arms of someone who cares for them.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post
                      As to the children part, as soon as you say they have mortal mothers, you're coming up against the question of what happened to those mothers? What reason can there be for no one knowing where the babies come from? Unless there's one like "When mortal women are pregnant with Immortals, they feel a compulsion to go to a faraway land (haha!) where nobody knows them, and hide until the baby is born whereupon they disintegrate." I always hate that idea that the mothers have to die. Thus, ANYTIME someone suggests that some positive agency (The Source, God, whatever) is dropping Immortals down... there is nothing positive about something that kills any woman who carries one of these children. There is also nothing positive about something that drops newborn infants willy-nilly, not making certain they even make it to adulthood before the death that triggers their Immortality, or that they are even in the arms of someone who cares for them.
                      Maybe they are produced by the Source via whatever woman is currently held therein and then placed by the Guardian wherever he feels compelled to place them. Maybe Duncan refusing to kill the Guardian didn't change his fate, and he will still be cursed to be the caretaker of newborn immortals while Anna pumps them out for 10,000 years until the next alignment reveals the Source and let's a crazed Duncan out to torment whatever group of immortals is seeking answers this time around. Maybe it doesn't matter, and attempting to answer the question of where immortals comes from is just bound to turn out bad movies, and so we should never bother with it. Maybe the mystery is simply part of the charm.

                      Comment


                      • #16
                        Originally posted by Takk View Post

                        Maybe they are produced by the Source via whatever woman is currently held therein and then placed by the Guardian wherever he feels compelled to place them. Maybe Duncan refusing to kill the Guardian didn't change his fate, and he will still be cursed to be the caretaker of newborn immortals while Anna pumps them out for 10,000 years until the next alignment reveals the Source and let's a crazed Duncan out to torment whatever group of immortals is seeking answers this time around. Maybe it doesn't matter, and attempting to answer the question of where immortals comes from is just bound to turn out bad movies, and so we should never bother with it. Maybe the mystery is simply part of the charm.
                        Heehee I like this.

                        Comment


                        • #17
                          Remember Zeist ...
                          La Peur Tue l'Esprit ...

                          Comment


                          • #18
                            I do. And that was a good answer to the problem.

                            Comment


                            • #19
                              The problem of foundling immortal babies gets a lot more complicated with Child Protective Services and DNA testing.
                              “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                              Billy Sunday

                              Comment


                              • #20
                                Also, the idea that no one's going to be able to come close to figuring out who the parents are, or the family might be, if there is a mother who gets burned up or killed with the birth...

                                Comment


                                • #21
                                  Originally posted by Coolwater View Post
                                  The problem of foundling immortal babies gets a lot more complicated with Child Protective Services and DNA testing.
                                  Ah...but wouldn't it be cool plot if you had a baby Immortal that was protected through the centuries by an adult Immortal? We should try to write a chain fanfic together, Cool.
                                  Are you still writing?

                                  Comment


                                  • #22
                                    Ohhhh! Can I be the baby?
                                    “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                    Billy Sunday

                                    Comment


                                    • #23
                                      I've seen a couple of those. WilUsa had Darius caring for a son of his in a fanfic. Came up with a cool save for it.

                                      Comment


                                      • #24
                                        Based on what I have read and heard if they die of old age they are dead. I am under the impression that to bvecome an immortal you have to be killed in some way, by violence, an accident, etc but not from natural causes like dying of old age.

                                        Comment

                                        Working...
                                        X