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Comic-Kaze
3/5/01
Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
Now in the series he got an average of one kill per episode. That means 22 episodes x 6 seasons = 132 kills minus maybe 30 non lethal episodes. LOL, does that mean MacLeod got 72 kills in his first 368 years?! (from 1624 to 1992) And then he suddenly went bloody mad and took 102 heads in a period of only 6 years?
He went from getting 0.19 heads/year to over 17 heads/year. Did his boss suddenly demand a higher workload? A daily quota? Well the only rational explanation I have is that perhaps the GATHERING began in 1985 so headcount increased dramatically after this time.
But if you consider this kill percentage...Connor MacLeod died in 1536. Connor has 262 confirmed immortal kills according to Endgame. If you read his count as more a normal count (not influenced by the ep to ep demands of a TV series), that is 0.56 heads a year (262 kills/2002-1541 [Year he meets Ramirez and thus, hasn't had any kills previous]).
Now if you apply that to Methos who I believe is about as adept if not more profficient than Connor MacLeod (definitely much more blood-thirsty/cold-blooded/utterly-evil in the past)...Let's just say 0.6 heads/year x 5000 years... that is over 3000 unconfirmed immortal kills! He could take on 4.5 Kell's (661 confirmed kills) at a time while sipping wine from his vineyard!!!
If Duncan ever had to face Methos, he would have utterly no chance! That is...if we follow the Endgame theory of having more raw count kills (not cumulative from defeated immortal's kills) = more powerful. -Jeremy
Mark Nguyen
3/5/01
Comic-Kaze wrote:
> Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
> Now in the series he got an average of one kill per episode. That means 22 episodes x 6 seasons = 132 kills minus maybe 30 non lethal episodes.
Uh, not really... I did a count once, a while ago, and it turns out that Duncan killed about 80 Immortals in 119 episodes (22 each in season 1-4,
18 in season 5, 13 in season six). I don't have the exact numbers anymore. But it certainly wasn't an average of once per episode. In the
first ten episodes of the second season, for example, Duncan killed "only" two Immortals (Michael Moore and Anthony Galen).
> does that mean MacLeod got 72 kills in his first 368 years?! (from 1624 to 1992) And then he suddenly went bloody mad and took 102 heads in a period of only 6 years?
The numbers are a little scrambled, but the idea is still true.
> He went from getting 0.19 heads/year to over 17 heads/year. Did his boss suddenly demand a higher workload? A daily quota? Well the only rational explanation I have is that perhaps the GATHERING began in 1985 so headcount increased dramatically after this time.
The reason behind this is indirectly described in the first episode, which established that Duncan was on a break from all the obsessive do-gooding that characterized his actions over the course of the series. He came out of retirement at the point, got all judgemental again, and
started killing Immortals.
Even better, he tended to move frequently. After all the eveil Immortals had been killed off in Seascouver or Paris, he suddenly moved to the
opposite city. This allowed the evil Immortals to repopulate the city he just left, letting him return to a city full of bad guys again by the
next season.
"Observe the migration habits of the common Evilimmie. Once the Evilimmie'snatural predator, the elusive Boyscoutimmie, flies East from
Seacouver for the Winter, the Evilimmies will claim the vacated territory as their own, often claiming houses and location sets formerly
occipied by other Evilimmies. However, the elusive Boyscoutimmie always returns in the following season, thereto wreak havoc and thus reduce the innocent Evilimmie population once again..."
> But if you consider this kill percentage...Connor MacLeod died in 1536. Connor has 262 confirmed immortal kills according to Endgame. If you read his count as more a normal count (not influenced by the ep to ep demands of a TV series), that is 0.56 heads a year (262 kills/2002-1541 [Year he meets Ramirez and thus, hasn't had any kills previous]).
Well, we don't really know when Connor's first Quickening was. He could have met and beheaded someone by chance without really knowing what was going on. Duncan did just that in 1624, and had perviously fought Kanwulf (winning on a fluke, and leaving Kanwulf for dead in
"Homeland").
Anyway, Connor still had way more kills than Duncan did on average up to 1992, when he went to the Sanctuary. He was a heck of a lot more busy than Duncan. What a guy.
> Now if you apply that to Methos who I believe is about as adept if not more profficient than Connor MacLeod (definitely much more blood-thirsty/cold-blooded/utterly-evil in the past)...Let's just say 0.6 heads/year x 5000 years... that is over 3000 unconfirmed immortal kills! He could take on 4.5 Kell's (661 confirmed kills) at a time while sipping wine from his vineyard!!!
Well, that's assuming that there were that many Immortals back then. He may have spent up to 2000 years as an evil SOB, but back then there weren't that many people - or Immies. Then for the past couple millenium at least, Methos has been staying out of the game, avoiding Immies, and doing whatever he needed to stay alive. I'm sure Methos has decapitated a bunch of people, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't as much as Connor or Kell.
> If Duncan ever had to face Methos, he would have utterly no chance! That is...if we follow the Endgame theory of having more raw count kills (not cumulative from defeated immortal's kills) = more powerful.
> -Jeremy
Maybe... Maybe not. Okay, so Duncan killed 172 people + Connor. Kell did in 665 or so befroe getting whacked. If you count everyone that their
kills have killed, I doubt that the simple numbers would equivovate.
Additional: while watching "Simpsons" tonight, I counted Duncan's confirmed kills during the commercial breaks. Within the context of the show, Duncan killed "only" sixty Immortals (not counting various flashback kills). What's more, he's only ever killed more than one Immortal in the context of any single episode: Peter Matlin and Liman Kurlow in "Blackmail", and Caspian and Kronos in "Revelations 6:8". This means that he's killed roughly 110 people between 1624 and 1992.
Mark
First Fallen
3/5/01
According to my research, from 1992 until the events of Endgame, Duncan took 62 Quickenings, although some of these were through "different" circumstanced ie. Jacob Galati, Alexi Voshin etc. He also proved himself the better swordsman in 72 battles, but allowed some of them live. That gives him an average of about 6 kills a year, since 1992 (assuming Endgame takes place in 2002).
That leaves 112 confirmed kills from the time Duncan killed the Hermit in the cave (Timothy of Gilliam) in 1625, up to 1992. 112 confirmed kills over 367 years gives an average of 0.3 kills per year. Considering how few he probably took in those early years this sounds reasonable. It's not like you could hop in a jet an be in another country in a few hours in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Encountering another Immortal probably didn't happen a lot. Duncan likely went years at a time without coming across another of his kind.
As the world became a smaller place, I'm sure Immortal encounters became more frequent. I will admit that Duncan seems more active than other Immortals. Something that has always amused me is when Joe mentions that Horvant Kant had killed 10 Immortals in the past 5 years as though - "Oooh careful Mac, this guy's a badass." All the while, Duncan had tripled his record.
>Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
Small correction...he became Immortal in 1622.
Mark Nguyen
3/5/01
First Fallen wrote:
>
> According to my research, from 1992 until the events of Endgame, Duncan took 62 Quickenings, although some of these were through "different" circumstanced ie. Jacob Galati, Alexi Voshin etc. He also proved himself the better swordsman in 72 battles, but allowed some of them live.
Eh? I went over the notes again, and I came up with 59 kills. Plus, he recieved Jacob Galati's quickening. Names follow (interested people write this down! I'm not gonna post it again!
Slan Quince
Howard Crowley
Caleb Cole
Alexei Voshin
Walter Reinhart
Andrew Ballin
Grayson
Christoph Kuyler
Carlo Sendaro
Zachary Blaine
Gabriel Pitone
Alfred Cahill
Michael Moore
Anthony Galen
Tommy Sullivan
Xavier St. Cloud
Nicholas Ward
Arthur Drake
Nefertiri
Luther
Martin Hyde
Michael Kent
Kern
Paul Karros
Armin Thorne
Axel Whittaker
Brian Cullen
John Garrick
Peter Matlin
Liman Kurlow
Michael Christian
Ernst Daimler
Lucas Kagan
Kalas
Kanwulf
Andrew Cord
Tyler King
Peter Kanis
Terrence Kinkaid
Simon Killian
Paul Kinman
Kamir
John Coltec
Sean Burns
Damon Case
Morgan D’Estaing
[Jacob Galati]
Roland Kantos
Haresh Clay
John Kelley
Gerard Kragen
Gavriel Larca
Ingrid Henning
Caspian
Kronos
Otavio Consone
Lord Byron
Richie Ryan
Devon Marek
Liam O’Rourke
Breaks are between seasons. It's in chronological order, I think. Am I
missing anyone?
Mark
First Fallen
3/5/01
>Zachary Blaine
Duncan fought him, but Amanda struck the killing blow and got the Quickening.
I included Jacob Kell and Connor MacLeod in my count, and accidentally counted Richard Tarsis in my original tally (MacLeod killed him in 1930)
The following is an alphabetical listing of the 61 Immortals that Duncan has killed in the 10 year span from the beginning of the series through Endgame:
Andrew Ballin
Sean Burns
Lord Byron
Alfred Cahill
Damon Case
Caspian
Michael Christian
Haresh Clay
Caleb Cole
Coltec
Otavio Consone
Andrew Cord
Howard Crowley
Brian Cullen
Morgan D'Estaing
Ernst Daimler
Artur Drakov
John Durgan
Jacob Galati
Anthony Gallen
John Garrick
Grayson
Ingrid Henning
Martin Hyde
Lucas Kagan
Antonius Kalas
Kamir
Peter Kanis
Roland Kantos
Kanwulf
Paul Karros
Jacob Kell
John Kelly
Michael Kent
Kern
Simon Killian
Terence Kincaid
Tyler King
Paul Kinman
Gerard Kragen
Kronos
Lymon Kurlow
Christoph Kuyler
Gavriel Larca
Luther
Connor MacLeod
Devon Marek
Peter Matlin
Michael Moore
Nefertiri
Liam O'Rourke
Gabriel Piton
Slan Quince
Walter Reinhardt
Richard Ryan
Carlo Sendarro
Xavier St. Cloud
Thomas Sullivan
Alexi Voshin
Nicholas Ward
Axel Whittaker
3/5/01
Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
Now in the series he got an average of one kill per episode. That means 22 episodes x 6 seasons = 132 kills minus maybe 30 non lethal episodes. LOL, does that mean MacLeod got 72 kills in his first 368 years?! (from 1624 to 1992) And then he suddenly went bloody mad and took 102 heads in a period of only 6 years?
He went from getting 0.19 heads/year to over 17 heads/year. Did his boss suddenly demand a higher workload? A daily quota? Well the only rational explanation I have is that perhaps the GATHERING began in 1985 so headcount increased dramatically after this time.
But if you consider this kill percentage...Connor MacLeod died in 1536. Connor has 262 confirmed immortal kills according to Endgame. If you read his count as more a normal count (not influenced by the ep to ep demands of a TV series), that is 0.56 heads a year (262 kills/2002-1541 [Year he meets Ramirez and thus, hasn't had any kills previous]).
Now if you apply that to Methos who I believe is about as adept if not more profficient than Connor MacLeod (definitely much more blood-thirsty/cold-blooded/utterly-evil in the past)...Let's just say 0.6 heads/year x 5000 years... that is over 3000 unconfirmed immortal kills! He could take on 4.5 Kell's (661 confirmed kills) at a time while sipping wine from his vineyard!!!
If Duncan ever had to face Methos, he would have utterly no chance! That is...if we follow the Endgame theory of having more raw count kills (not cumulative from defeated immortal's kills) = more powerful. -Jeremy
Mark Nguyen
3/5/01
Comic-Kaze wrote:
> Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
> Now in the series he got an average of one kill per episode. That means 22 episodes x 6 seasons = 132 kills minus maybe 30 non lethal episodes.
Uh, not really... I did a count once, a while ago, and it turns out that Duncan killed about 80 Immortals in 119 episodes (22 each in season 1-4,
18 in season 5, 13 in season six). I don't have the exact numbers anymore. But it certainly wasn't an average of once per episode. In the
first ten episodes of the second season, for example, Duncan killed "only" two Immortals (Michael Moore and Anthony Galen).
> does that mean MacLeod got 72 kills in his first 368 years?! (from 1624 to 1992) And then he suddenly went bloody mad and took 102 heads in a period of only 6 years?
The numbers are a little scrambled, but the idea is still true.
> He went from getting 0.19 heads/year to over 17 heads/year. Did his boss suddenly demand a higher workload? A daily quota? Well the only rational explanation I have is that perhaps the GATHERING began in 1985 so headcount increased dramatically after this time.
The reason behind this is indirectly described in the first episode, which established that Duncan was on a break from all the obsessive do-gooding that characterized his actions over the course of the series. He came out of retirement at the point, got all judgemental again, and
started killing Immortals.
Even better, he tended to move frequently. After all the eveil Immortals had been killed off in Seascouver or Paris, he suddenly moved to the
opposite city. This allowed the evil Immortals to repopulate the city he just left, letting him return to a city full of bad guys again by the
next season.
"Observe the migration habits of the common Evilimmie. Once the Evilimmie'snatural predator, the elusive Boyscoutimmie, flies East from
Seacouver for the Winter, the Evilimmies will claim the vacated territory as their own, often claiming houses and location sets formerly
occipied by other Evilimmies. However, the elusive Boyscoutimmie always returns in the following season, thereto wreak havoc and thus reduce the innocent Evilimmie population once again..."
> But if you consider this kill percentage...Connor MacLeod died in 1536. Connor has 262 confirmed immortal kills according to Endgame. If you read his count as more a normal count (not influenced by the ep to ep demands of a TV series), that is 0.56 heads a year (262 kills/2002-1541 [Year he meets Ramirez and thus, hasn't had any kills previous]).
Well, we don't really know when Connor's first Quickening was. He could have met and beheaded someone by chance without really knowing what was going on. Duncan did just that in 1624, and had perviously fought Kanwulf (winning on a fluke, and leaving Kanwulf for dead in
"Homeland").
Anyway, Connor still had way more kills than Duncan did on average up to 1992, when he went to the Sanctuary. He was a heck of a lot more busy than Duncan. What a guy.
> Now if you apply that to Methos who I believe is about as adept if not more profficient than Connor MacLeod (definitely much more blood-thirsty/cold-blooded/utterly-evil in the past)...Let's just say 0.6 heads/year x 5000 years... that is over 3000 unconfirmed immortal kills! He could take on 4.5 Kell's (661 confirmed kills) at a time while sipping wine from his vineyard!!!
Well, that's assuming that there were that many Immortals back then. He may have spent up to 2000 years as an evil SOB, but back then there weren't that many people - or Immies. Then for the past couple millenium at least, Methos has been staying out of the game, avoiding Immies, and doing whatever he needed to stay alive. I'm sure Methos has decapitated a bunch of people, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't as much as Connor or Kell.
> If Duncan ever had to face Methos, he would have utterly no chance! That is...if we follow the Endgame theory of having more raw count kills (not cumulative from defeated immortal's kills) = more powerful.
> -Jeremy
Maybe... Maybe not. Okay, so Duncan killed 172 people + Connor. Kell did in 665 or so befroe getting whacked. If you count everyone that their
kills have killed, I doubt that the simple numbers would equivovate.
Additional: while watching "Simpsons" tonight, I counted Duncan's confirmed kills during the commercial breaks. Within the context of the show, Duncan killed "only" sixty Immortals (not counting various flashback kills). What's more, he's only ever killed more than one Immortal in the context of any single episode: Peter Matlin and Liman Kurlow in "Blackmail", and Caspian and Kronos in "Revelations 6:8". This means that he's killed roughly 110 people between 1624 and 1992.
Mark
First Fallen
3/5/01
According to my research, from 1992 until the events of Endgame, Duncan took 62 Quickenings, although some of these were through "different" circumstanced ie. Jacob Galati, Alexi Voshin etc. He also proved himself the better swordsman in 72 battles, but allowed some of them live. That gives him an average of about 6 kills a year, since 1992 (assuming Endgame takes place in 2002).
That leaves 112 confirmed kills from the time Duncan killed the Hermit in the cave (Timothy of Gilliam) in 1625, up to 1992. 112 confirmed kills over 367 years gives an average of 0.3 kills per year. Considering how few he probably took in those early years this sounds reasonable. It's not like you could hop in a jet an be in another country in a few hours in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. Encountering another Immortal probably didn't happen a lot. Duncan likely went years at a time without coming across another of his kind.
As the world became a smaller place, I'm sure Immortal encounters became more frequent. I will admit that Duncan seems more active than other Immortals. Something that has always amused me is when Joe mentions that Horvant Kant had killed 10 Immortals in the past 5 years as though - "Oooh careful Mac, this guy's a badass." All the while, Duncan had tripled his record.
>Duncan MacLeod amassed 174 immortal kills since becoming immortal in 1624.
Small correction...he became Immortal in 1622.
Mark Nguyen
3/5/01
First Fallen wrote:
>
> According to my research, from 1992 until the events of Endgame, Duncan took 62 Quickenings, although some of these were through "different" circumstanced ie. Jacob Galati, Alexi Voshin etc. He also proved himself the better swordsman in 72 battles, but allowed some of them live.
Eh? I went over the notes again, and I came up with 59 kills. Plus, he recieved Jacob Galati's quickening. Names follow (interested people write this down! I'm not gonna post it again!
Slan Quince
Howard Crowley
Caleb Cole
Alexei Voshin
Walter Reinhart
Andrew Ballin
Grayson
Christoph Kuyler
Carlo Sendaro
Zachary Blaine
Gabriel Pitone
Alfred Cahill
Michael Moore
Anthony Galen
Tommy Sullivan
Xavier St. Cloud
Nicholas Ward
Arthur Drake
Nefertiri
Luther
Martin Hyde
Michael Kent
Kern
Paul Karros
Armin Thorne
Axel Whittaker
Brian Cullen
John Garrick
Peter Matlin
Liman Kurlow
Michael Christian
Ernst Daimler
Lucas Kagan
Kalas
Kanwulf
Andrew Cord
Tyler King
Peter Kanis
Terrence Kinkaid
Simon Killian
Paul Kinman
Kamir
John Coltec
Sean Burns
Damon Case
Morgan D’Estaing
[Jacob Galati]
Roland Kantos
Haresh Clay
John Kelley
Gerard Kragen
Gavriel Larca
Ingrid Henning
Caspian
Kronos
Otavio Consone
Lord Byron
Richie Ryan
Devon Marek
Liam O’Rourke
Breaks are between seasons. It's in chronological order, I think. Am I
missing anyone?
Mark
First Fallen
3/5/01
>Zachary Blaine
Duncan fought him, but Amanda struck the killing blow and got the Quickening.
I included Jacob Kell and Connor MacLeod in my count, and accidentally counted Richard Tarsis in my original tally (MacLeod killed him in 1930)
The following is an alphabetical listing of the 61 Immortals that Duncan has killed in the 10 year span from the beginning of the series through Endgame:
Andrew Ballin
Sean Burns
Lord Byron
Alfred Cahill
Damon Case
Caspian
Michael Christian
Haresh Clay
Caleb Cole
Coltec
Otavio Consone
Andrew Cord
Howard Crowley
Brian Cullen
Morgan D'Estaing
Ernst Daimler
Artur Drakov
John Durgan
Jacob Galati
Anthony Gallen
John Garrick
Grayson
Ingrid Henning
Martin Hyde
Lucas Kagan
Antonius Kalas
Kamir
Peter Kanis
Roland Kantos
Kanwulf
Paul Karros
Jacob Kell
John Kelly
Michael Kent
Kern
Simon Killian
Terence Kincaid
Tyler King
Paul Kinman
Gerard Kragen
Kronos
Lymon Kurlow
Christoph Kuyler
Gavriel Larca
Luther
Connor MacLeod
Devon Marek
Peter Matlin
Michael Moore
Nefertiri
Liam O'Rourke
Gabriel Piton
Slan Quince
Walter Reinhardt
Richard Ryan
Carlo Sendarro
Xavier St. Cloud
Thomas Sullivan
Alexi Voshin
Nicholas Ward
Axel Whittaker