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5-1: Prophecy, The End of Innocence, Manhunt

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  • 5-1: Prophecy, The End of Innocence, Manhunt

    Discuss these Season 5 episodes:

    Prophecy
    The End of Innocence
    Manhunt
    __________________________________________________

    "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
    --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

  • #2
    "Prophecy" sucks, "End of Innosence" is one of my top five episodes of the show (and Richie's best role in the show), and "Manhunt" is pretty good, too. Can't go wrong with Carl Robinson!

    Comment


    • dubiousbystander
      dubiousbystander commented
      Editing a comment
      Why does Prophecy suck, though?

  • #3
    Cinedigm has made the episodes available on YouTube.



    Episode 88: "Prophecy"

    This episode is like an especially laughable piece of Mary Sue fan-fic, filled with high fantasy nonsense that does not belong in the more grounded universe of Highlander.
    __________________________________________________

    "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
    --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

    Comment


    • dubiousbystander
      dubiousbystander commented
      Editing a comment
      *giggle* I understand completely. I still like Leslie's version where Ahriman is an insane, psychic immortal who burned out his powers fighting Duncan.

    • Wilusa
      Wilusa commented
      Editing a comment
      I think it's insulting to professional writers to compare their work to a Mary Sue (where a female character is the author's fantasy version of herself, usually having sex with the hero). The writer credited with this episode is David Tynan! I'll post thoughts later...

    • Tootsie Bee
      Tootsie Bee commented
      Editing a comment
      Then they should try writing something worthy of their profession instead of churning out this garbage (where almost-statutory-rapist Cassandra has sex with the hero, in case you've forgotten). As for the late David Tynan, he wrote some good episodes, but he also wrote some real dreck: Counterfeit, Archangel/Avatar, To Be/Not to Be... If he writes a bad episode, I'm going to call it a bad episode.

  • #4


    Episode 89: "The End of Innocence"

    A splendid follow-up to both "Something Wicked" and "One Minute to Midnight." An even better Richie episode than "Prodigal Son."
    __________________________________________________

    "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
    --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

    Comment


    • #5


      Episode 90: "Manhunt"

      Run For Your Life...again. Carl Robinson returns, and the writers hope that the audience has as sharp a memory as Duncan himself. This sequel is as satisfying as that season 2 story, but it also wanders back into the hokiness of season 2.
      __________________________________________________

      "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
      --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

      Comment


      • #6
        It's my understanding (learned at a long-ago convention) that Stan Kirsch would have left the show, of his own volition, at the beginning of Season 5, if a pilot he'd been in had been picked up for a series. The HL producers had been prepared to adjust their filming schedule so he could be in "The End of Innocence"; then we never would have seen him again.

        Comment


        • #7
          "Manhunt": Fans were told at some point that the producers had considered a spinoff series starring Eric McCormack as the character he played here. I don't think they ever mentioned it to him - they let him think his character's surname being "McCormick" (one letter different) was a funny coincidence. It wasn't!

          Yikes! How different might his career have been? If he had signed on for a Highlander-franchise series, and it was a hit, he wouldn't have been free to do "Will and Grace." (I never looked at that - I avoid sitcoms in general - but I know it made him a "star.")

          Bill Panzer said at some later date that they'd decided a series with another male-Immortal lead's being the only real difference from HL:TS would "diminish the legacy" of what they'd already done.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Aleander View Post
            "Prophecy" sucks, "End of Innosence" is one of my top five episodes of the show (and Richie's best role in the show), and "Manhunt" is pretty good, too. Can't go wrong with Carl Robinson!
            Agreed.

            I don't know why Aleander thinks that Prophecy sucks, but for me it's simply the addition of actual magic. This taints much of Season 5 for me up to and including the Ahriman arc. There are so many silly episodes in Season 5 that could have been fine with a slight rewrite: just make Roland in Prophecy another powerful immortal without the magic. Don't associate the four horsemen with anything in the Book of Revelation, just make them generic Bronze Age raiders. Make the ghost stuff in Haunted far more ambiguous—don't have the ghost of Duncan's friend outright appear at the end. Finally, they could just have made Ahriman some kind of mystic immortal, similar to the psychic immortal from Season 3. In all these cases they could have had almost the exact same plots, except for "Avatar" and "Armageddon", but few people would complain about those pretentious and nonsensical episodes being trashed. Duncan could still have renounced his sword (which I liked and wished they had made more of) and focus on his mind (which I also liked), but at the end of the day he'd be trying to overcome a flesh and blood immortal. It wouldn't have been some cheesy, Omen-esque silliness that everyone is too embarrassed to reference in future episodes.

            Actually I think that they crossed the line back in Season 2 with Pharoah's Daughter. That episode is so silly. But at least it gave us that cool Roman character. Wish he had become a frequent character.

            There's also something weird in Prophecy. Cassandra tells Duncan as a kid that he's going to have to confront a great evil one day, and in the context of that episode it seems pretty clear that she's referring to Roland, but in Archangel they retroactively pretend that she was talking about Ahriman. It's very strange.
            Last edited by David McMurdo; 07-21-2017, 03:52 PM.
            Formerly known as "Quickening"

            My latest video in which I visit an ancient broch and cairns: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxY2hYR6GXw

            Comment


            • dubiousbystander
              dubiousbystander commented
              Editing a comment
              I think it's pretty much for the same reason they created Kell for Endgame. "He's not gonna fight you, Duncan... not until he's made you suffer... until he's destroyed everything you love in this world... until you don't know whether you want to live or die. That's your way, right, Slan?"

              Writers: "Dudes, you know what? Slan was pretty feeb for wat Connor said. Hey, wouldn't it be awesome if he had the wrong guy?"

              "Dudes, Kantos was a one-off, with all that prophecy-shit. What if Cassandra had the wrong guy?"

          • #9
            Okay, I complained earlier about Tootsie Bee's comparing "Prophecy" to a "laughably bad" Mary Sue-type fanfic. That's an insult to professional writers (the one shown as having been responsible for this episode being a man!); and it's not in that category at all. A Mary Sue is a fic in which a female character is the female author's fantasy version of herself, usually enjoying sex with the hero. And if that's what the author has in mind, one would expect it to be really central to the story.

            Cassandra surely is a new character, and she does have sex with Mac. But I don't see that as being central to the story - the writers having started out by thinking of this new character.

            I can only guess, of course. But...think back to "Homeland," which aired a year earlier. Whenever I look at that, I have the thought, "Why did Debra Campbell's father promise her in marriage to Robert rather than Duncan, when she loved Duncan, and the clan chieftain's son might have seemed like a better match?" Might numerous fans have been asking about that?

            I can think of two plausible, very prosaic possibilities. (Robert's father asked first; or, because first cousin Robert was older than Duncan, he was actually more likely to be accepted as the next chieftain.) I'm sure the writers could think of prosaic answers, too. But maybe they decided to go with something more interesting. Establishing that something in Duncan's childhood had caused many people in Glenfinnan to suspect that there was something strange, dangerous, about him - even though he never realized it.

            So the writers conceived the idea of a sinister stranger - Immortal, of course - coming to Glenfinnan in search of a boy who'd been born at the winter solstice. (If they hadn't already established that about Duncan, they did it then.) It almost had to involve "prophecies" about the child - the Immortal really believing the adult was destined to kill him. Everyone in Glenfinnan knew when Duncan had been born...and while the stranger was there, he was suspiciously absent, "lost in the woods."

            Then they had to explain why he was "lost in the woods," destined to return safely...and one obvious possibility was a "good" Immortal, who knew what was going on and would protect him. That would have been the origin of Cassandra: a character created to fill a story need, with sex being only a minor part of it.

            I agree there are problems with the story! Cassandra has real paranormal powers, while Kantos seems really to be just a master hypnotist. And if she'd once been his teacher, it seems strange that she seemingly didn't know him well enough to recognize what he was doing, and simply tell Duncan all he had to do was plug his ears. (A somewhat ridiculous situation!) Also, I know Adrian objected to their including so much fantasy.

            But...it turned out to be worth it, because in Cassandra, they found a perfect "character to fill a need" in the "Horsemen" story! A character old enough to have been alive in the "Bronze Age," whom Mac already knew and trusted, who could convince him Methos really had been one of the Horsemen.

            Comment


            • #10
              I am with you, Wil. Now get Cassandra out of her coma!
              Last edited by dubiousbystander; 07-25-2017, 07:16 PM.

              Comment


              • #11
                Ha ha! Nope, the duration of that coma will have to be left to any reader's imagination. Didn't want a too-saccharine ending, with all loose ends neatly tied up!

                Comment


                • dubiousbystander
                  dubiousbystander commented
                  Editing a comment
                  But you could have a whole story about how you get her out of the coma! And it should probably involve Methos, and someone not unlike what MacLeod became. Maybe even Nick… I just love your story.

              • #12
                Nope! That story - and series - is ended, the way I'd planned it for years.

                Comment

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