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What Aspects of the Series Didn't You Like?

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  • #26
    Shadows
    Prophesy
    Ahriman

    Each of these tried to deal with supernatural powers, demons and preordained fate. I feel these stories were trying to cash in on the fandoms of other supernatural shows at the time. In my opinion immortality and the magic of the quickenings did not need to be sidetracked by these stories.

    Comment


    • dubiousbystander
      dubiousbystander commented
      Editing a comment
      Well, Shadows was just psychic powers. Prophecy was just a blatant use of psychic powers as opposed to the more vague "I read your marriage line and you're never gonna marry, you stinking pig!"

  • #27
    I never liked how the series said that the original movie took place in the same continuity as the series. It's like trying to put the Buffy the Vampire Slayer move and TV show into the same universe: it just does not work as what is established in the movie contradicts what is established in the TV show. However, unlike Highlander, Buffy the Vampire Slayer put the movie into a different continuity (as the movie was not very good, and the Origin comic is the canon origin of Buffy). Here are the reasons why the Highlander movie and series do not belong in the same universe:

    Movie: The Quickening is a very bright light, immortals getting injured does nothing to them, they can stay underwater without anything bad happening, nobody knows about the immortals except the immortals themselves and a few humans and during the film, the Gathering happens, and Connor wins the prize, meaning there are no more immortals left.

    Series: The Quickening is Lighting, immortals getting injured causes them to fall unconscious, they can't stay underwater without something bad happening to them for some reason, the Watchers know about the immortals and the Gathering takes a long time to happen (and only gets sort-of-resolved in the worst movie ever made: Highlander the Source).

    Now there are other problems (like how kid-friendly the series is, the tendency to kill-off characters, and the horrible sixth season), but the fact the Series tries to put the movie in the same continuity as it is my biggest problem with it.

    Comment


    • #28
      Originally posted by somecallmejames View Post
      Series: The Quickening is Lighting, immortals getting injured causes them to fall unconscious
      Those two changes sorta began in Highlander II, so I don't see them as major inconsistencies.
      __________________________________________________

      "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
      --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

      Comment


      • #29
        Originally posted by somecallmejames View Post
        Now there are other problems (like how kid-friendly the series is, the tendency to kill-off characters, and the horrible sixth season), but the fact the Series tries to put the movie in the same continuity as it is my biggest problem with it.
        Wait a minute, there..."kid-friendly"? A series where people get beheaded left, right, and center, plus other assorted dark, horrible stuff happening to the characters (including, as you mention, killing lots of them off)? The producers had to stylize how they depicted some of those beheadings, yes, due to Standards and Practices, but those beheadings still indeed happened onscreen, and the series was about as far from "kid-friendly" as you can get for a syndicated cable-drama in the mid-'90s.

        RoboCop: The Series was sanitized and "kid-friendly." Highlander: The Series most definitely was not.
        Last edited by Leto II; 06-28-2017, 11:21 AM.

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        • #30
          Originally posted by Leto II View Post
          Wait a minute, there..."kid-friendly"? A series where people get beheaded left, right, and center, plus other assorted dark, horrible stuff happening to the characters (including, as you mention, killing lots of them off)? The producers had to stylize how they depicted some of those beheadings, yes, due to Standards and Practices, but those beheadings still indeed happened onscreen, and the series was about as far from "kid-friendly" as you can get for a syndicated cable-drama in the mid-'90s.

          RoboCop: The Series was sanitized and "kid-friendly." Highlander: The Series most definitely was not.
          What I meant by the kid-friendly comment, was that by having decapitations not shown properly, poorly shot nudity and never showing a body without it's head that's not covered up in some way (except the pilot, if I remember correctly), it makes it hard for me to take it as seriously as I could do.

          What I meant by the charater deaths, was that they were often poorly done. For example:

          Charlie Desalvo was brought back in season 4, just to die.

          Tessa's death was terrible because it had nothing to do with the rest of the episode and it felt like an ass-pull on the writer's part. I don't care if it's realistic, it's not very good story-telling.

          And finally, Richie's death was the worst in the entire series. He just stands still like a complete idiot while Duncan cuts his head off.

          Comment


          • #31
            I actually liked the deaths of Charlie and Richie. They had it coming for some time.
            Charlie dabbling as a mercenary got him againstan opponent he couldn't beat, even though that knife fight was awesome.
            And Richie escaped his inevitable fate a few times before. His impulsive nature of rushing into any situation led to a fitting end.

            Tessa's death was sudden but did wonders for the series and I didn't mind at all that it was shown that immortals don't have control over all aspects of their lives. Tragedies happen.
            May flights of Demons guide you to your final rest...

            Comment


            • #32
              Originally posted by Leto II View Post
              The producers had to stylize how they depicted some of those beheadings, yes, due to Standards and Practices, but those beheadings still indeed happened onscreen.
              If you say so, but the arc of Duncan's swing didn't always seem to match up with where their necks were supposed to be.
              __________________________________________________

              "Really? We are trapped in a room with a machine that can cut off my head. Now that's a longshot."
              --Connor MacLeod in Peter Bellwood's original Highlander II script

              Comment


              • #33
                Originally posted by somecallmejames View Post
                And finally, Richie's death was the worst in the entire series. He just stands still like a complete idiot while Duncan cuts his head off.
                Well, that's pretty much what happened to Rebecca, May Ling, Sean Burns...

                Comment


                • #34
                  I didn't so much "dislike" the two things I'm going to mention as find them a "distraction." Two implausible "messages"...

                  First, the clue Darius left for Mac, when he knew he was about to be killed. He left a Watchers' Chronicle, and a piece of cloth with the MacLeod tartan. But then, the simple message "27NJS." Quite a stretch for Mac to have to figure out it meant "27 N(something) J(something) Street" in his Seacouver zip code!

                  And later, the clue Methos left for Mac to tell him where the "Horsemen" were gathering. He was supposedly able to write "Bordeaux," and a long hotel name, in a matchbook?



                  Comment


                  • #35
                    I don't see why anyone should "dislike" such concepts as all Immortals being foundlings, beheadings on holy ground having catastrophic consequences, or one you didn't mention, belief that one last Immortal will triumph in a future "Gathering." Every fan should be willing to acknowledge the existence of a universe in which some - though undoubtedly not all - Immortals believe these things (while others live and die without ever hearing of them). And then, every fan can decide for himself or herself whether, in their view of that universe, the concepts are true, or simply myths. Some of us incline more to fantasy, others to quasi-"realism."

                    Comment


                    • #36
                      Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post

                      Well, that's pretty much what happened to Rebecca, May Ling, Sean Burns...
                      Well, not quite. Rebecca and May Ling knew it was coming, and may Ling and especially Sean Burns were shocked that they were going to die the way they were. Richie seemingly didn't even try to defend himself against a raging lunatic waving his sword around like a real nutcase, screaming obscenities. Talk about horrible writing - they should've just had him hold a sign like Willie Coyote that said "BEHEAD ME, PLEASE" and be done with it.

                      See, its not just the concept of magic and especially of a demon roaming the centuries that's stupid. Its the writing that accompanies it that makes it especially idiotic. Stuff like the above in inexcusable, because its simply a means to an end.

                      Comment


                      • dubiousbystander
                        dubiousbystander commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I decided to dedicate myself to the idea I read in at least one fanfic: Ahriman is really just a powerful psychic Immortal, and Duncan burnt him out.

                    • #37
                      I just remembered the thing I disliked most about the series! Maybe not surprising, given the type of thing it is - no one else has mentioned it either. It's our having had to pretend that Vancouver, British Columbia, was really a U.S. city - eventually, with the ridiculous name "Seacouver." I assume there was some convoluted legal, contractual reason why it had to be "disguised" as a U.S. city. But the producers never should have let some subset of fans pick a name for it...accepted a silly squashing together of parts of the words "Seattle" and "Vancouver"...and made it official by using the resulting name in - I think it was a sign posted on a wall - in an episode.

                      Comment


                      • #38
                        What I dislike about the show is the treatment of Immortal women treated as wimps, as defeseless before the swords of male Immortals, i.e Rebecca, May-Lign, Grace. They lived for centuries and to survive in the Game would have developed more than one survival skill. Remember the female is the deadliest of the species in many cases; and when they are the equals of Duncan MacLeod, they are either a murdering b*** like Felicia Martins or a thief like Amanda. Even with Alex Raven : Duncan tries to sleep with her, thus trying to impose his sexual power over her as he did to Ceirdwyn.

                        Comment


                        • #39
                          Originally posted by Gardner View Post
                          What I dislike about the show is the treatment of Immortal women treated as wimps, as defeseless before the swords of male Immortals, i.e Rebecca, May-Lign, Grace. They lived for centuries and to survive in the Game would have developed more than one survival skill. Remember the female is the deadliest of the species in many cases; and when they are the equals of Duncan MacLeod, they are either a murdering b*** like Felicia Martins or a thief like Amanda. Even with Alex Raven : Duncan tries to sleep with her, thus trying to impose his sexual power over her as he did to Ceirdwyn.
                          I couldn't agree more. I also hated the fact that a male immortal could be a priest or shaman but not a woman. Plus it would have been really neat to see more magic.

                          Comment


                          • Gardner
                            Gardner commented
                            Editing a comment
                            A druidess would have done the trick. Cassandra as the oracle of Delphi, for instance.

                        • #40
                          That's basically the reason why I disliked Amanda not beating Luther. She simply should've, to prove a point.

                          Comment


                          • #41
                            Originally posted by Gardner View Post
                            What I dislike about the show is the treatment of Immortal women treated as wimps, as defeseless before the swords of male Immortals, i.e Rebecca, May-Lign, Grace. They lived for centuries and to survive in the Game would have developed more than one survival skill. Remember the female is the deadliest of the species in many cases; and when they are the equals of Duncan MacLeod, they are either a murdering b*** like Felicia Martins or a thief like Amanda. Even with Alex Raven : Duncan tries to sleep with her, thus trying to impose his sexual power over her as he did to Ceirdwyn.
                            I think Grace was unique in that she'd made a moral choice. You can't say she lacked courage. She didn't hide on holy ground.

                            I would say that Ceirdwyn was no wimp and a match for Duncan in force of character. They each helped the other when they needed it.

                            Also, let's not forget Kyra. When he challenges her with the pipe she did well against Duncan and in the end made short work of a male immortal.

                            Comment


                            • #42
                              Originally posted by Muireannpendrgon View Post

                              I couldn't agree more. I also hated the fact that a male immortal could be a priest or shaman but not a woman. Plus it would have been really neat to see more magic.
                              Was that a rule for immortals or a restriction in the religions?

                              Comment


                              • #43
                                Originally posted by Saber Dog View Post

                                Was that a rule for immortals or a restriction in the religions?
                                I have no clue.

                                Comment


                                • #44
                                  I now something mentioned the episodic nature of the show but I wanted to make a more precise gripe than that. I hated the Immy of the week thing. Are there really that many Immortals running around that particular part of the Pacific NW town (whether it's actually Seattle or Vancouver) and the particular part of Paris for Duncan to run into them and fight constantly? All three cities are fairly big and there should be plenty of room for two Immortals to live there without accidentally running into each other.
                                  Gonna change my evil ways...one of these days

                                  Comment


                                  • #45
                                    I didn't mind the Immy of the week, although some of the WOWS were pretty awful. I'm one who loathed the addition of the magical stuff. To me one of the pleasures of HL was that you had these Immortals running around an otherwise natural, rational world. Prior to the introduction of magic in the stories, the storyline had to make sense. Once you have magic, the plot introduces a straw man in the form of a predicted fate or destiny or in the form of a magic imbued object. After that the plot becomes predictable running around until the magic "works" and the fate comes about. And isn't it amazing that the magic won't work until three minutes before the end of the episode? Bah.

                                    I didn't mind the ep where Rich got killed because you could argue that Duncan went right round the bend. Ditto the one with Steven Webber as the the Im that was trying impose dreams on Duncan while he was awake. if we assume Duncan is skippy in the head, we can skip the magic.
                                    “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                    Billy Sunday

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                                    • #46
                                      Originally posted by Coolwater View Post
                                      I didn't mind the ep where Rich got killed because you could argue that Duncan went right round the bend. Ditto the one with Steven Webber as the the Im that was trying impose dreams on Duncan while he was awake. if we assume Duncan is skippy in the head, we can skip the magic.
                                      Again, I want Ahriman to prove to be a mad Immortal imposing dreams on Duncan (and his associates) while he was awake! Heh.

                                      Comment


                                      • #47
                                        Yes, but HOW?
                                        “A sinner can always repent, but stupid is forever.”
                                        Billy Sunday

                                        Comment


                                        • dubiousbystander
                                          dubiousbystander commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          Same way Garrick did. If you accept what Garrick did, then you can accept this other guy. Or, I suppose, gal.

                                        • Coolwater
                                          Coolwater commented
                                          Editing a comment
                                          But I don't accept what Garrick did. Duncan just has sporadic bouts of insanity, that's all. I have to admit that I love the scene where Duncan downs the whole bottle of pills. Temporary suicide as a way of getting some rest is novel.

                                      • #48
                                        Moreover, any time you have oracles, you really need to keep them vague. Highlander child born on the Solstice... *sigh*

                                        Comment


                                        • #49
                                          Originally posted by dubiousbystander View Post
                                          Moreover, any time you have oracles, you really need to keep them vague. Highlander child born on the Solstice... *sigh*
                                          True it's better if prophecys are vague since you never know how they will turn out.

                                          Comment


                                          • #50
                                            1: Continuity in a series with multiple writers is always going to be shaky. The Foundlings concept doesn't bother me so much because it gels well with the other pseudo-mystical aspects of the story like the Methuselah Stone, certain immortals having advanced powers of persuasion and prophecy, the Ahriman legend, etc. That I being said, I don't like the constant character shield that surrounds Duncan. I get he's the main character and you can't have a show called Highlander without a Scottish Immortal from the Highlands but it's not just the way he seemingly avoids death that got to me. It was the way that he was always morally justified in any given situation. How many other immortals were "punished" for the same things he got away with? A minor example is when Richie tries to have his own family and Duncan pressures him to walk out on them. Duncan has had countless lovers and he has been a surrogate father to many children, with all of the same dangers Richie faced. And he's taken revenge on the people who took those lovers from him. So why couldn't he just let Richie figure stuff out for himself? Heck, Richie might actually have lived longer if he had remained with what's her face and the kid.

                                            2: I agree with another poster about the sexism. Two female immortals are killed in the opening act in the least believable way possible - one of whom was allegedly Duncan's teacher at one point. Go figure.

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