What Aspects of the Series Didn't You Like?

[Midnight Rambler]

Duncan's "boy scout" personality
Two of Hearts
Pharoahs Daughter
Ahriman arc
Dr. Anne

[Wilusa]

I disliked the Ahriman Trilogy (though it at least gave us reasons for writing fan fiction), and virtually all of Season Sux. (No, that's not a typo.) But I think the worst single episode was "Pharaoh's Daughter." Utterly ridiculous that an Immortal who'd been in an Egyptian sarcophagus for two thousand years could come out of it understanding and speaking English! Without even any kind of foreign accent. And yet, she didn't understand French!

I don't have any problems with the supposed Immortal foundlings, sterility, or holy ground. Because we don't have to accept that Immortals know everything - how could thay? We can choose for ourselves which concepts we want to believe are true. And once again, we can write fan fiction that doesn't necessarily have to be labeled AU, if we have Immortals making new discoveries about these things after the ending date of the series.

[SouthernChickie]

I always thought that the series should have ended with Richie's death. That would have been an amazing, emotional end. Then, they should have stepped back, taken their time and written some good follow up made for TV movies. S6 was a shit show that made no sense in the context of the universe they had spent five years building.

[RainbowRaven]

Well first of all, I've never had a knee jerk reaction to the series of "ugh! They need to fix this or that! That doesn't make sense!" I just felt disappointed in the final season. I did have general curiosity about certain aspects however. My approach is more "What Aspects Of The Series Could Have Been Better?" And if the new movie is going to start a movie series and a television series, etc etc, these are things they could think about.

I realized after writing the below that the intangible in the show is what I noticed. Things that they said were a big deal but didn't seem to be a big deal after the fact. These are things that I always pondered "well why?"

Holy Ground - don't fight there because someone said so and has passed down an old wives tale about what could happen.
The Rules - are rules because they just are damnit except when they're not.
Quickenings - we take in all that another Immortal is and ever was and have absolutely nothing to show for it.
The Gathering - we are compelled to gather, take our word for it.

The Basics

1) Holy Ground - There needs to be something tangible that happens when Immortals first enter Holy Ground. When an Immortal enters Holy Ground, they should feel a change in the atmosphere, something that causes the hairs on the backs of their necks and along their arms to stand on end. The reason this happens can be attributed to energy mortals and Immortals direct towards these spots. The intent to physically harm another Immortal in that place, in that moment, should be met with a physical reaction. Anything from nausea to dizziness or faintness. Whatever it is, it should render the Immortal unable to fight and take a while to wear off. Allusions to legends that something happens if they fight there are not enough. Vesuvius pffff.... If an Immortal can push through physical illness and nearly blacking out to kill someone on Holy Ground, then let's have some fireworks. Otherwise, Holy Ground is a comfortable place to be.

2) The Rules - In particular the rule that Immortals can't gang up on one Immortal to take their heads; it can only be one on one. There should be real and felt consequences to breaking this rule. The battle is sacred and meddling should have consequences.

A) The resulting Quickening is tainted in some way and detrimental to the receiver. Stories of Immortals who received such a Quickening or witnessed another Immortal receiving such a Quickening could prove interesting and a deterrence to those who see themselves as good. Imagine the head taker losing a memory of their own life for breaking the rules for example. A core part of who they are, their humanity, lost because of what they did. For Immortals who don't care, who would they be after doing that years down the line?

B) An actual barrier that occurs the moment a challenge is accepted (verbally or by taking up arms). Something epic but subtle. Initial flash of electricity in the eyes (of the same stuff the Quickening is made up of) and a certain radius around the fight becoming impassable by other Immortals. The barrier is also made up of the same stuff as a Quickening, unseen except for the moment the challenge is accepted and the moment another Immortal attempts to get too close. This energy is what conflicts with the energy found on Holy Ground. Mortals can pass through the barrier which should make for fun stories. An Immortal's mortal husband shooting the knees of his wife's opponent to stop her from being beheaded lol, which could taint the Quickening again if she took No-Knee's head. The duel being done in secret becomes more important because of this.

3) Quickenings - Not much to change here. Keep it electric and epic lol. After receiving a Quickening, the Immortal should exhibit some knowledge they didn't have before. This does not have to be an added skill in sword fighting. The Immortal should know things the defeated Immortal did. Example: an Immortal kidnapped someone and has them tied in a basement. The victor should now know where that person is even if the vanquished refused to give that information beforehand. Perhaps there is a period of time post-Quickening where this knowledge is heightened and easily accessible for the Immortal before it settles so to speak and their own personality and being re-orients itself as dominant. The Immortal may have vivid dreams, memories of things, times and places, cravings for foods... or other things. Mental training would be elevated to being just as important as sword training. Immortals who are not wary would be more susceptible to having their personalities sublimated by the Quickenings of Immortals they vanquished. Dark Quickenings can be rolled into this. Imagine those new Immortals who just can't be bothered to practice (too "woo woo" for them) struggling with this and those Immortals who lapsed in their practice due to fill in the blank.

4) The Gathering - A more pointed portrayal of the compulsion to gather. New Immortal A assuming it is simple wanderlust that she wants to go to Sydney, Australia. Old Immortal B, all too aware of what that yearning means holing himself up on Holy Ground for a bit and meditating a whole lot. Immortal C feels the call and also sees on TV that an old enemy is already there. He can't resist it. He has to go. Immortal D plagued by dreams of vegemite, a food she's never had nor seen before lol. Whether humorous or profoundly serious, show the call and the need it incites to gather wherever in the world.

That's it for the basics. There were things about character & plot development that bugged me that I can write about later. One of them was NOT that Duncan Macleod was always perfect. He was not portrayed as perfect by any stretch of the imagination. I thought he was an ideal portrayal of masculinity but that's my own opinion. He was portrayed as a fully fleshed out multi-faceted man who was realistically comfortable in his own abilities and beliefs after 400 years. There was a complete lack of bluster and macho and he was not easily threatened. He was proven wrong on occasion and though he took his time to acquiesce, he wasn't stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. He pushed Joe and Methos away when he thought associating with them messed with his ability to adhere to his code and accepted them back nearly as quickly when shown that there were instances that their friendship and brotherhood overrode his code for the better.

[golddragon71]

I honestly didn't like Tessa all that much. she seemed way too insecure about her relationship with Mac.
It didn't matter whether Mac had history with another woman or not, Tessa was instantly wary of any other woman who came into Mac;s circle. (she warmed up to Grace Chandel but that was it)
Conversely, I didn't hate Anne but I didn't really want Mac to be tied down to another mortal lover and have her die like Tessa did and get that kind of situation repeated every other year.

I wasn't thrilled that so many of the first season immortals never came back (those that didn't lose their heads that is) Of course, the longer the series went on, the less, "the Gathering" seemed imminent but I always thought that there should be mentions of certain immortals having been taken out. (like Richie could have had a run-in with Felicia after Mac's Dark quickening and took her off the board)

[backstagejack]

Personally, and I know this was a thing in TV shows back then... I didn't like how it was so episodic and no over arching storylines. I rewatched the entire series about 5 years ago and damn... it was a grind. After a few seasons I was getting burned out. I get that TV back then wasn't meant to be binged watched but the "villain of the week" doesn't do much for me.

I felt that S6 went off the rails but I think many feel that way. With Adrian Paul being MIA, random one off episodes and even the ending "It's a wonderful life" episode had great moments but it was kinda out there.

I would have been okay if the entire series had mixed in magic and witches and the like but for the most part the series was grounded in reality aside from the last two seasons which might be what made it work the best.

[SouthernChickie]

I thought Methos was a much better idea for a spin off series for that exact reason.

[Midnight Rambler]

I had the same issues with Mac that I have with a lot of hero characters. I hate the always right, always moral, always the strongest, fastest, best..... I think that's part of why Methos was so popular. He was a good guy, but a real guy. When it came down to it he was a survivor, morals be damned. He was going to do the right thing if it benefited him. If he had to break the rules so be it.

Plus, Mac was so smug much of the time. He never considered if someone else's opinion was the right one or had merit.... he just knew he was right and that was that. If you didn't agree you were wrong.


Also: Anne. Never liked her. Not the character. Not the actress. Not the storylines they have her.

Exactly why I liked Methos more than Duncan and his holier than thou mentality. Plus Methos reminded me a little of myself. Lol

[dubiousbystander]

I'm on team Doctor Anne. I am a heterosexual woman, and I thought she was great. I think the problem, maybe, that some people had with her was really that her character was mistreated by MacLeod. Issues with having to hide his immortality, versus the perfectly normal interaction of a couple in a developing relationship, I think that was a problem for some people.

[Saber Dog]

I agree with what you said about Duncan. Part of Methos' charm was that he puncture that facade occasionally. You see it in lots of shows that the hero is never wrong. I did a fan fiction turning Buffy the Vampire Slayer into the bad guy because she was wrong but believed she was right. The best bad guys are the ones you understand and even agree with to a point. For example, the old timer in "Shane" who wanted the sodbusters out because his generation's cattlemen way of life was threatened.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SmEEUOIhhc

[Firkin]

7: Mickey. This is a bit more of an obscure one, but the conclusion of the episode "The Innocent" really bothers me. I just can't accept that Duncan and Richie are willing to behead a mentally impaired guy. It's not like he's evil or anything. He just can't help himself some times. I do always get a chuckle imagining Richie emerging from the tunnel now as impaired as Mickey was whenever I watch the episode though. Duncan's just like "oops, didn't know a quickening could do that." There's a fan-fiction waiting to happen.

I've had several conversations about tard quickenings.

[Midnight Rambler]

She is rather ugly.

[Haplo]

Well, she was hot. So...

Exactly..except not.

[SouthernChickie]

I had the same issues with Mac that I have with a lot of hero characters. I hate the always right, always moral, always the strongest, fastest, best..... I think that's part of why Methos was so popular. He was a good guy, but a real guy. When it came down to it he was a survivor, morals be damned. He was going to do the right thing if it benefited him. If he had to break the rules so be it.

Plus, Mac was so smug much of the time. He never considered if someone else's opinion was the right one or had merit.... he just knew he was right and that was that. If you didn't agree you were wrong.


Also: Anne. Never liked her. Not the character. Not the actress. Not the storylines they have her.

[Andrew NDB]

All of those are in-story excuses. In terms of the actual audience, the people watching... it seemed like a slap in the face to the character and her fans. There was nothing stopping TPTB from holding "Eye for an Eye" for at least a couple of episodes, or simply coming up with something for Duncan and Annie to do other than have sex (would getting super, super drunk not be sufficient?).

[Aleander]

Well, she was hot. So...

[Midnight Rambler]

I remember a few members at the old board were on Team Dr. Anne, I couldn't understand it.

[David McMurdo]

And speaking of characters that made me want to throw up....Dr. Ann. I mean come on. Really?

Agree. It's hard to say this without sounding nasty, but she has an annoying look. She always looked like she was miserable or something. I don't know how anyone looked at her and thought "there's a sexy love interest for Duncan."

[Midnight Rambler]

Dr. Anne, hated her.

[Colleengael]

You forgot about Darius and Count Segur in Paris. Both were older than thirty.

[Aleander]

Ahri...who?

[Aleander]

I never liked the show when it felt it had to conform to conventions that were mostly of the time. Like, the hero has to be absolutely perfect and never admit he's wrong. And the show's rather guilty of ruining their own build-ups in an underwhelming amnner.

Case in point, "They Also Serve" set up very directly how Richie was supposed to "save" Duncan's life by arriving in time to give him katana in order to fight Michael Christian fair and square, further adding to Joe's friendship with Duncan. But they undercut that by having Duncan be the macho Immortal who could take out Christian so easily as to beat him with his own sword. Its not nonsensical, ok, but it fails to gel with the show's narrative drive, making it a storytelling mess.

There also other such instances, but I will say that the producers and writing stuff had stated to be more critical of themselves by the fifth season, albeit for a very brief time. Ideally, Duncan should've lost in "Forgive Us Our Trespasses". Ideally, Amanda should've fought and beaten Luther, despite expectations and despite everything. But it didn't happen.

[Elskidor]

Ahriman and nearly everything that followed.

[Lady_CJ]

If they would have kept the bit about one Immie feeling the death of another in I would have to site that as a bugbear for me as it wouldn't make much sense. I mean can you imagine every time someone lost their head you got weak in the knees and dropped to the ground? You might as well stay there....lol

And I absolutely hated Kenny. He was a sniveling, sneaky little brat. And speaking of characters that made me want to throw up....Dr. Ann. I mean come on. Really?

I'm also not sure what's up with their computers. An important element of the Kalas arc is that The Watchers aren't allowed to have a digital database of the immortals for security reasons. But then in "Indiscretions" Joe has just that kind of database and it's portrayed as being something normal for The Watchers. Methos knows about it so we know it isn't Joe just going against the rules or something.

You're right, Q. I never thought about it until now but they weren't even supposed to use cameras. So how did they get pictures of everyone to even put in the database. I mean I can see them wanting to go hi-tech and all...get with the times, easier to keep track of stuff but they had pictures of Immies from before cameras were even portable enough to carry around.

[Lady_CJ]

Granted it was the next episode but they had already returned home from Paris and burying her and it's not really mentioned how long it had been. That being said....and in Mac's defense (such as it is) he has suffered through many losses and probably bounced back quicker than mortals who haven't watched everyone they love die many times over. Plus...and this is a weak defense I know....but...he was drunk when he and Annie got busy on the dock.....lol