Highlander II would be greatly improved if Ramírez was edited out of it entirely.

[Nicholas Ward]

[Takk]

No, no, Ramirez is the single best thing about Highlander II. Without him, I honestly can't imagine I'd ever rewatch it.

[MichaelHenry]

Agreed. Besides, Sean Connery was a gifted actor.

[Andrew NDB]

I agree, sadly. The ridiculously resurrected Ramirez's resurrection majorly pulled us out of believability and plunged us into crazy town. And his whole purpose in the movie was only one thing: to sacrifice himself to stop a... fan blade? Like, that was it. Nothing else. You remove that fan blade room, he had no purpose in the movie.

Now, could they have rewritten H2 to better utilize Ramirez? Preferably only in flashback (other times he spent with Connor in Scotland, not seen in the flashbacks in H1)? Could have been way better.

[KOOLLAYDTAC]

I actually liked Ramirez in the movie. In my opinion the story itself was what pulled us out of believably. That whole script could have been written way entirely better then what it was mates. lol

[dubiousbystander]

I actually liked Ramirez in the movie. In my opinion the story itself was what pulled us out of believably. That whole script could have been written way entirely better then what it was mates. lol

The movie is such an exercise in "could have been if only"! There were some beautiful scenes, and some ideas I've read about that were left unmentioned, that really would have helped.

[KOOLLAYDTAC]

The movie is such an exercise in "could have been if only"! There were some beautiful scenes, and some ideas I've read about that were left unmentioned, that really would have helped.

True I agree and in fairness doing a sequel was a challenge in itself to begin with anyway considering technically Connor won the game in the original movie. lol It would have been actually interesting to see how the movie series would have turned out if they had actually stuck with the story line they released from this movie.

[dubiousbystander]

True I agree and in fairness doing a sequel was a challenge in itself to begin with anyway considering technically Connor won the game in the original movie. lol It would have been actually interesting to see how the movie series would have turned out if they had actually stuck with the story line they released from this movie.

Grant Kempster and friends recently started video series on The Source. Apparently some of the original scripts were terrifying better than what was finally made.

[johnnybear]

Tracking time warps and visiting the past were things that have no business in Highlander and why they changed immortals into aliens has long been a thorn in my mental side? I mean why did they do it? The time warp stuff is by people who have never seen the films or those that didn't understand it but who wrote the Zeist rubbish?
JB

[dubiousbystander]

No to both, johnny. Apparently the aliens idea was floated in one of the early scripts for the original movie, but was left behind. And before you say "Thank goodness", the movie was a box office flop anyway, so with all the rest about it, I'm sure the same thing would have happened. People would eventually have become addicted to the wonder of it. Time warp stuff by people who've never seen the films? At that point, there was only one film, and it was about a small number of immortals, for no particular reason the Kurgan knew about Connor. We all choose what we'll suspend disbelief about, but quite frankly to me, suspending disbelief about men who live until you cut their heads off, don't age, breathe underwater, just stagger when drunk off their arses and they keep getting mortally wounded, oh and then end it all with now being able to hear the thoughts of everyone on Earth, sire children and grow old and die is not harder to believe than adding in, and they are alien exiles.

[jjsanford]

In terms of the narrative, the way Ramirez was utilised was superfluous, however I enjoy his being in it and the film would lose some of its charm without his presence.
I always thought it would have made more sense for him to appear in flashbacks pre exile to build up a more personal rivalry between Ramirez and Katana, and giving more reason and depth for his inclusion in the narrative and in Scotland when training Connor, perhaps showing some style or move that ends up being helpful in a battle between Connor and Katana.
Connor being able to focus on his friends thoughts, memories and knowledge via the connection they have due to the quickening also allowing for some form of interaction in the present as well.

As terrible as this will sound ,I had a scene in my mind about this when I last watched the film about using the power of the quickening to initially contact Ramirez. ill put it out here for fun but dont be too harsh lol:

Set after Connor has had the initial two quickening and returned to his abode.
Connor meditating in his loft surrounded by relics from his past. the camera passes by various pieces and snatches of voices relevant to the relics can be heard. The camera focusses on Connors face.
ConnorVoiceover: Ramirez my old friend, what would you do in my place?
the camera moves in to a close up of Connors face which flinches as he hears the sound of the final moments of Ramirez and Kurgans battle, as all goes silent he takes a deep breath and opens his eyes.
Connor is now in the ruins of his Scottish home, Ramirez decapitated body lies on the floor, Connor looks Sad.
Ramirez voice: Greetings highlander!
Connor looks up and Ramirez sits on the remains steps of the ruined keep ever so slightly ethereal in nature. Conner smiles.
Connor: I don't believe it.
Ramirez: I told you long ago Mcleod, we are joined by the quickening. Not even death can separate us....and I have to say im rather glad the magic works. Ramirez smiles and winks at him.
Connor laughs as Ramirez comes down the steps.
Ramirez: Charming place for a reunion -
gently mockingly as he looks distastefully over his own dead body and rubs his hand around his neck.
: now what seems to be the problem
Connor: Katana
Ramirez face hardens
Ramirez: Now that is a problem..

---

[MichaelHenry]

Nice, that would have been a great scene.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, flashbacks with Ramirez to some unseen time during Connor's years with him and Heather in Scotland would have been great. We'd have gotten back Beatie Edney, too. Barring that, since Connor technically has Ramirez' Quickening... perhaps Highlander 2 could have gone a little Godfather 2, in that we could have gotten two storylines back and forth? i.e., half the movie is Connor in the present dealing with the Shield wall and all of that nonsense, but the other half is Ramirez -- long, long before meeting Connor -- on some mission to help another country thematically similarly to what Connor is doing in the present.

[jjsanford]

Love the idea of the plot going Godfather 2 structure wise. Would have been an interesting way to bring him back.

[Darth Reaper]

I'd say there isn't much that can help this movie; taking Ramirez out of it would only hurt the movie further. It's Sean Connery man, taking him out would be a sin.

No to both, johnny. Apparently the aliens idea was floated in one of the early scripts for the original movie, but was left behind. And before you say "Thank goodness", the movie was a box office flop anyway, so with all the rest about it, I'm sure the same thing would have happened. People would eventually have become addicted to the wonder of it.

But, I would say that it's a better movie without the alien idea. I like the Immortal phenomena better as a mysterious and possibly unknowable "kind of magic." The mystery makes it that much more wonderous. The alien aspect doesn't really add anything of value to the mythology.

[dubiousbystander]

I'd say there isn't much that can help this movie; taking Ramirez out of it would only hurt the movie further. It's Sean Connery man, taking him out would be a sin.



But, I would say that it's a better movie without the alien idea. I like the Immortal phenomena better as a mysterious and possibly unknowable "kind of magic." The mystery makes it that much more wonderous. The alien aspect doesn't really add anything of value to the mythology.

You do, and that's fine. The thing is the movie was made BECAUSE of demand for an origin story.

[Darth Reaper]

Then they should have come up with a better origin.

[dubiousbystander]

With the way it ended up put together, nothing would have worked. "Mutants!" "Angels!" "Fairies!" -- "They should have come up with a better origin!"

[Andrew NDB]

With the way it ended up put together, nothing would have worked. "Mutants!" "Angels!" "Fairies!" -- "They should have come up with a better origin!"

Yeah, there is no reedit that can save H2, only slightly mitigate certain things. It needed at least a couple more drafts before going out the door.