Fight of the Day shall Return!

[dubiousbystander]

Me? Well. In theory, Giovanni is one of the last Immortals (because why are the Watchers finished? Because there are so few Immortals left to Watch). Giovanni would have taken Axel, unless bad luck struck.

I think sometimes we aren't served well by what we see onscreen, whether in the TV show or a movie. Mako should have taken Richie, but for bad luck, for example. It's a hard stretch to believe that Giovanni was anything other than skilled, and so I think by "story" standards, that proximity to the Source and finding himself vulnerable probably made him hysterical. Methos, being 5,000 or so, beat the heck out of there. If he'd stayed, he might have been forced to fight Duncan. Duncan was pure (because story), and the influence of the Source could not make him turn on the others. He only defended himself.

[Nicholas Ward]

Me too. Alright, I'm going to instill a new rule. If a fight ends in a tie, both are out! Double beheading! lol. Midnight, Sunday night and all four are out.

That's a dumb rule. Especially since Drakov now has the 3-1 advantage.
Why not ask a couple of the other active members?

dubiousbystander , Andrew NDB , Colleengael , Tootsie Bee , Wilusa , von Møllet , Gardner
your opinion is needed on the subject of who would win if Cardinal Giovanni and Axel Whittaker fought to the death.

[Aragorn]

I would deduct points for the hair.

Me too. Alright, I'm going to instill a new rule. If a fight ends in a tie, both are out! Double beheading! lol. Midnight, Sunday night and all four are out.

[JedimstrCR]

And he gets bonus points for his hair

I would deduct points for the hair.

[Nicholas Ward]

I hoped you'd fancy a trade but I should've known better.

Head hunters are hunting the trodden paths to get to the behind the scene characters. Tyler king was a head hunter and he hunted the weak, misguided others like Laszlo hunted too. So that's not a real argument. However I'd guess that protection from holy ground would be the next item to be discussed to discredit Giovanni. He left that and held his own perfectly in the fight on the dock without getting injured. Giovanni IS in the same league as Methos. And he has the age, experience and dirty tactics to overcome most foes. Petty tactics of Whittaker's calibre would do nothing against him.

And he gets bonus points for his hair

[Aragorn]

I actually think Carl would beat Drakov. So I don't WANT to change that. I agree that Axel was a cheater but he was REALLY good at it. Xavier St. Cloud was a cheater too - he had henchmen shoot people so he could take their heads; it's even worse than what Axel did. I think Axel took enough heads (his bio says over 50 with Sharon alone!) he had become very powerful and that's why when he fought Duncan he came across very well. He was super quick and even got a shot in on Duncan.

I get that Giovanni MAYBE was good but we literally have nothing on him as a swordsman. According to his bio it says "According to the film's script, Giovanni was present at the fall of Rome to the Visigoths under Darius and Grayson, and The Kurgan." Again, that doesn't mean he was heavily involved in combat. He means he was was there. He's old, for sure. He is probably above average even though he looked sloppy from what we saw but we also know that sometimes that's on the actor not being athletic or having any sword background.

That being said, after reading his bio I'm more convinced that Giovanni has been a "behind the scenes" type of character. That doesn't mean he can't take care of himself but Axel was an avid head hunter. I know he cheated a lot but when he had to fight Duncan cleanly he put up a great fight. I really wish I could find a clip of that scene.

[Nicholas Ward]

You can have Drakov, it's not like he'll get much further anyway. Giovanni however is superior to Whittaker.

[JedimstrCR]

I know that Slash frowns on Axel for his cheating, but there wasn't any cheating involved in his final fight with Duncan (once Michelle was out of harms way). Tell me he didn't look really good in that fight, and you wouldn't take that skill level against an unknown quantity like Giovanni? (if you can't tell, I'm not flipping on this fight anytime soon, lol)

[Aragorn]

So either we can duke it out and try to talk someone into flipping or we wait for a tie breaker. I'm pretty set on Whittaker beating Giovanni but I could switch from Carl to Drakov. Gut tells me Carl would win but Drakov DID disarm Duncan so ... while I don't think he's anywhere near as athletic as Carl, he's not bad with a sword. If someone will agree to switch from Gio to Axel I'll switch from Carl to Drakov.

[Aragorn]

Got a couple of ties!

[JedimstrCR]

1. Cahill - Agree with Slash; Cahill was pretty good despite his age. Meanwhile, Browning was extremely poor despite his age.
2. Whittaker - I agree with Ward that circumstantial evidence might give Giovanni an advantage, but the fact that we never saw him one-on-one really hurts him in my eyes. We saw Axel and he was excellent. Only reason he lost his head is because Duncan had the good fortune to come out of the water first (because he's the main character, LOL).
3. Ceirdwyn - I was never all that impressed with Amanda's swordarm, even after her turn in the Raven. Ceirdwyn was a badass warrior woman, so I'm giving her the nod.
4. Drakov - Sure he didn't look like much but he showed some decent skill. Carl, while obviously athletic, didn't strike me as all that adept with a blade.

[Nicholas Ward]

2ND ROUND:


2.
Axel Whittaker vs. Giovanni

Nicholas Ward, couldn't disagree with you more on this. Giovanni seems like a coward. I know he's old but that's all we know about him. He seems uncoordinated and we've never seen him really use a sword. That being said; yeah Axel was a cheater but man did you see how quick he was with his broad sword? Go back and watch that fight, he looked damn good and we know based off the # of heads he took he was pretty powerful. I think he trashes Giovanni. If he doesn't, I don't know enough about Giovanni to put him over a very capable fighter in Whittaker.
VOTE: Axel Whittaker

He also challenged Methos without hestitation, knowing fully who he was. He's no coward but extremely selfish and, like Methos, sports a hidden blade.
The wiki claims that in the script Giovanni served under Darius & Grayson as well as the Kurgan and was a Knight's Templar (maybe someone who has seen the script can verify or deny this?)

Axel is good but not THAT good.

[Mr.Slash]

1.
Alfred Cahill - He may have been a noob, but it was pretty obvious he had skill and training. I think he would win.

2.
Giovanni - Without cheating, Axel is less than stellar.

3.
Ceirdwyn - Might be entertaining for a bit until Ceirdwyn gets enough and kills Amanda

4.
Arthur Drakov - Damn good fight here. I think Drakov is just slightly better.

[Aragorn]

2ND ROUND:

1.
Alfred Cahill vs. Charles Browning

Browning seemed sloppy at best, Cahill was trained in the military so I trust he's combat capable. He's not going to go too far but I think he will take Browning.
VOTE: Cahill

2.
Axel Whittaker vs. Giovanni

Nicholas Ward, couldn't disagree with you more on this. Giovanni seems like a coward. I know he's old but that's all we know about him. He seems uncoordinated and we've never seen him really use a sword. That being said; yeah Axel was a cheater but man did you see how quick he was with his broad sword? Go back and watch that fight, he looked damn good and we know based off the # of heads he took he was pretty powerful. I think he trashes Giovanni. If he doesn't, I don't know enough about Giovanni to put him over a very capable fighter in Whittaker.
VOTE: Axel Whittaker

3.
Amanda vs. Ceirdwyn

This could go one of many ways. I feel like if they fought 100 times the win count would be close. As of the end of the main Highlander show Ceirdwyn would no doubt win but Amanda got really good on the Raven. I still think Ceirdwyn wins this but it could go either way.
VOTE: Ceirdwyn

4.
Arthur Drakov vs. Carl Robinson

Copy and paste what Nicholas Ward said.
VOTE: Carl Robinson

[Nicholas Ward]

Last two fights are actually really good!

Last 3! Cardinal Giovanni is no slouch.

2ND ROUND:

1.
Alfred Cahill vs. Charles Browning
This will go to Cahill, mad as he is, his modern combat techniques will easily best Charles Browning.

2.
Axel Whittaker vs. Cardinal Giovanni
These are most likely 2 of the most selfishly arrogant immortals to cross swords.
Cardinal Giovanni is on par with Methos in my book and would give Whittaker a run for his money.
That being said, he's prone to temptation and that's a strategy Whittaker used successfully a lot, but without the aid of a female distraction Axel will lose.
Winner: Cardinal Giovanni

3.
Amanda vs. Ceirdwyn
Amanda would take this fight. Ceirdwyn is good but rages too easy, Amanda would use that against her. Winner: Amanda

4.
Arthur Drakov vs. Carl Robinson
About evenly matched but Drakov has his physique against him. Carl is a sportsman and will have more stamina and therefore I think Carl will win this.
Winner: Carl Robinson

[Aragorn]

Last two fights are actually really good!

[Aragorn]

2ND ROUND:

1.
Alfred Cahill vs. Charles Browning

2.
Axel Whittaker vs. Giovanni

3.
Amanda vs. Ceirdwyn

4.
Arthur Drakov vs. Carl Robinson

[Aragorn]

1.
Alan Wells vs. Connor MacLeod

2.
Bernie Crimmins vs. Brian Cullen

3.
Annie Devlin vs. Darius

4.
Anthony Gallen vs. David Keogh

Connor, Cullen, Darius & Gallen advance!

[JedimstrCR]

1. MacLeod - No contest.
2. Cullen - Only a top level Immie is going to take out Cullen. Bernie ain't it.
3. Darius - Annie got taken out by n00b Richie. Granted, it was because Duncan knew her pet move. But still. Darius was a badass back in the day, so I believe he'd find a way.
4. Gallen - Too tough for poor lil' David.

[Mr.Slash]

1.
Connor MacLeod

2.
Brian Cullen

3.
Darius - I am going by the rule of immortals in their prime. Had this been what we saw on TV, I would vote otherwise because Darius might want to live but he'd lost the fire.

4.
Anthony Gallen

[Nicholas Ward]

1.
Alan Wells vs. Connor MacLeod.

And that'll be the swift end of Alan Wells. Winner: Connor MacLeod

2.
Bernie Crimmins vs. Brian Cullen
This is a fight that I'd like to see. They're so radically different it's almost unimaginable. Cullen is a fast technically good swordsman, Crimmins a heavy armoured axe wielder.
But in the end fast most likely prevails over tough. Winner: Brian Cullen

3.
Annie Devlin vs. Darius
I don't think Darius would know how to handle the small little Devlin. Winner: Annie Devlin

4.
Anthony Gallen vs. David Keogh
I think these are about evenly matched. But I liked the character of Gallen more so he gets my vote. Winner: Anthony Gallen

[Aragorn]

Round 2

1.
Alan Wells vs. Connor MacLeod

2.
Bernie Crimmins vs. Brian Cullen

3.
Annie Devlin vs. Darius

4.
Anthony Gallen vs. David Keogh

[Aragorn]

I agree with everything you guys said except I think Howard Crowley would clean General Katana up. Katana sucked. Literally, by immortal terms he was an "immortal" for like a week before he took on Connor. So stupid. Crowley had some age on him and actually put up a fight with Duncan. Connor owned Katana and his quickening lasted 11 seconds. He is the definition of pathetic. He would take out noob immortals that have no training and that's it. I think Crowley would win easily. Still, I'm out voted 3-1.

[Mr.Slash]

Pretty cut and dry across the board.

1.
Hans Kershner

2.
Everett Bellian

3.
General Katana

4.
Duncan MacLeod - This would be a damn good fight.

[JedimstrCR]

1. Kershner - He lost to Byron while under extreme emotional duress. He'll have no such problems here.
2. Bellian - The colonel would prove too much for the Viking.
3. Katana - He sucked with a sword, but he could still out-brawl Crowley.
4. MacLeod - Jin Ke's speed certainly gave Duncan fits, but at that point Mac was already roughed up by Kell's posse. Fighting on even terms, I think Duncan would eventually find a way to win.